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OnlyMP3.to - Governance and Risk Ep. 190- jK2VtNUHuGE-192k-1... Fri, 5/13 12:02PM 1:33:50 SUMMARY KEYWORDS dai, auction, psm, maker, dsr, liquidity, voting, collateral, increase, holders, user, governance, coin, wallet, core, delegates, stable, dao, good, proposals SPEAKERS Prose11, Lucas, Andrew Burban, Rune Christensen, Kirk, Artem Gordon, Nadia Alvarez, Primoz Kordez, Sebastien Derivaux, LongForWisdom P Prose11 00:03 All right. Hello everyone and welcome to the next slide, I believe we're on the 190 is the governance and risk call here at Maker DAO. Awesome can still count up good sign. My name is Payton I go by Pres 11 online and I'm one of the governance facilitators here. We're here at our weekly call, and we discuss things relevant to what's going on in the protocol risks we're facing, as well as current votes, initiatives, all that sort of fun stuff. We'll go over a couple of the ground rules. I guess before we get too far in, as you might have noticed, this call is being recorded. So hello, if you're watching the recording, for those of us that are here live, we would ask that we try not to speak over one another. Just to keep them the mic clear. With that said, though, we do encourage open participation, we want you to ask questions, give comments, all that good stuff. There are a couple facilitation tools that would help me out if you are attending your life. Number one is the raise hand feature on Zoom. If you have something you'd like to add to the conversation, you know, you're you're willing to be called on super helpful, just raise your hand, and I can work you in the next moment. If you're unable or unwilling to hop on the mic, you can always utilize the chat more than happy to work in comments when conversationally appropriate. I think that covers most of the do's and don'ts. So let's go ahead and take it to the agenda here. As usual, we'll start with our governance round up going over the votes, as well as updates on the Maker improvement proposals and what's been happening in our forum. C. So believe that this is the last week slide for actual docket today. Today we'll be talking about the the demand issue for Dai and kind of the current state of the market and how that's effect. I will be going over the exec Maker Maker man asking about that in the chat. So yeah, my apologies on this slide, but ignore it. Our main topic today is die demand. And we'll get to there shortly. If you wouldn't go through the votes, though. Awesome. Thank you, Thomas. So pretty quiet like on the polling front. We did not have any weekly polls. However, there are still two ongoing Greenlight polls voting for those ends on Monday. So please do express your opinion there if you haven't had the chance to do so. Yeah. Sometimes the more exciting side of it, we do have five ratification bowls to go over as well in our in our VIP segment. Awesome in terms of executives, McMahon was asking in the chat, yesterday's has not passed yet. We're currently sitting at like 60 476, about 65,000 MKR in support. So a little less than allimand MKR, I believe from the hat. So if you haven't seen that executor haven't gotten a chance to vote on it, please consider doing so. For the one going up next week. We have some foundational layer to work to including spell as well as a Core Unit MKR vesting transcript. Cool. So that should cover it on votes. Like I said, kind of a light week for us. There are plenty going on in the MIPS corner though. I believe we have gala presenting for us today on that. 03:28 Yes, hello, everyone. This is a gala from GovAlpha. And I'm presenting MIPS for this week. So on Monday, we had five proposals that entered the main governance cycle. We can take a look at the votes so far. So yes is the living option at 100% for all proposals. As of today, we have MIPS six to five project Clydesdale liquid one strategy and execution. MIPS 68 monitor LIS Lusitano UK green economy, S M E wholesale lending. Then there's MIP 69, l two two L one first withdrawals. We have the Core Unit budget process Amendment and the strategic happiness Core Unit. But so these numbers were drawn from the voting portal around three hours ago. For proposals in RFC, there are a ton of them. So yesterday was the deadline and we we have a few new ones. Let's take a look at them. Top Level MIPS. We have MIPS 72, which has been around for a while now. It's the delegated collateral attachment real world assets arranger application from success capital. And there's two brand new proposals that have been posted yesterday. That there is a MIPS 74 permissionless open market operations, which defines the process used to agree and action permissionless open market operations with funds controlled by Maker. And there's MIPS 75, which proposes the formalization of task forces. So these groups will be responsible for coordinating high level business decisions on behalf of the DAO. For that there's already for maybe 75, or maybe 75 derived sub proposal, onboarding, the growth Task Force. We have one Core Unit onboarding for lending oversight Core Unit. So love intends to support the DAO in its evolution to become the central pillar of DeFi by facilitating the sustainable onboarding of 10s or hundreds of billions of more complex use cases. For facilitator on boardings and off wordings, there's one facilitator on onboarding proposal for a second note for the minify security Core Unit. And for the data insights Core Unit, there's a voluntary facilitator offboarding, from Thomas, and he hopes to be succeeded by Taddeo, for whom we have a facilitator or onboarding proposal. What else there's amendments. So we have two amendments going on. One that has been going on for a while. That's the Core Unit of voting process amendment. We are still working on that. And hopefully, we will be posting on the forum soon, the updated version, and there's one amendment to MIB 16. So, these amendments are just the governance the weekly governance cycle so the governance Cadence from executive proposals being posted on Friday, to this being posted on Wednesday. We have two Core Unit budgets, one for Strategic Finance and one for growth Core Unit. Note that both of these budgets use the new year to be ratified Core Unit budget process. And finally, there's Maker Shire Hathaway which is a special purpose fund that intends to experiment with various yield generation strategies. 07:40 So the ratification 07:41 polls that are up now they will post in less in little less than two weeks on May 23. So please go vote if you haven't done so yet. And for June, June's governance cycle, remember that the formal submission window opens on June 6. wildlife that's awesome. P Prose11 08:04 Thanks, Kyla. I know there's a lot to roundup really appreciate you. Giving us a picture everything that's happening in forms. And speaking of arguments that brings us to to your territory, I believe. Yep, A Artem Gordon 08:19 everyone. Happy Thursday. And welcome to the GNR forum recap from the forum at a glance, and we're gonna go over some of the top news, announcements, discussions and all of our current signal requests. And we'll get started with this week's top announcements. So first up, we know that the P team has been working really hard on a product that'll allow Dai transfers across L tos and it was called Maker warm, warm home. And, unfortunately, jump trading and American financial market trading firm has been also building a bridge with a similar name, and they even acquired the domain wormholes.com. So in response to this unfortunate news, the Maker wormhole has been rebranded and is now called Maker teleport, which will continue to help us promote the product without future conflict or confusion. Next up, we have towball here again, and the Maker brand team has put together a Maker DAO announcement table that's collecting all announcements prepared for Maker Das, Twitter and media audience. So check out the post for an access link to this and a breakdown of how the table works. And next up, we have gov alpha and us GovComms will be experimenting with a new time for a monthly governance and risk call. So on May 26th, and June 30. We will have GNR calls that will take place at 21 UTC and the reason for this is to allow community members from opposite time zones to participate and join these calls. And next up, but quick, important message. Pretty simple due to recent events, please direct all messages related to media queries to media at Maker growth.com. And now we're moving on to our discussions. A couple of less discussions than usual. But we have starting off with the Oracles Core Unit, submitting a Maker teleport Oracle. And so it says wormholes, but I'm going to say teleport, just to keep up to date. Due to most of the Hold on, go back for a second. There we go. I'll just summarize the two most of the LT designs, having a built in confirmation that's takes a long time. It's a delay on the L one, and we will need to use a separate method to ensure a better user experience. And this can be provided through a teleport Oracle using currently existing Oracle theatres and the Oracle Core Unit proposes a design for this teleport Oracle along with its specific features. There's also some notes and information on securities, but it's a good post to check it out. Next up, we have Adam Young, publishing a post introducing procession capital to the community and advance of a formal application that will be submitted in the coming weeks. procession is an SEC regulated New York based Investment Advisors specializing and asset back then structured credit portfolio management. For more information on precession, their goals, their strategy and also a work in progress of their eventual arrange, arrange your application, check out the post and the links provided within it. And now we're moving on to our signal requests and there's a lot of them I believe a total of seven right now. First up we have Maker teleport known until recently as Maker wormhole, it will soon launch and provide users with safe and fast Dai transfers across L two, and ace from strategic finances proposing that we launch Maker teleport over one basis point fee, still making it over 75% cheaper than other bridge products. Creating a one basis fee will provide additional revenue stream that is probably negligible to a casual user. And in conclusion, Ace is asking whether we should launch Maker teleport with a one basis point fee or no fee at all. Next up, we have Abdullah from bacon DAO requesting to onboard a d3 to create a bacon protocol Dai pool. Now bacon coin is a stable coin backed by us mortgages and bacon DAO would oversee this pool and select Home Loans based on a mandate such as the FICO score LTV and more. Abdullah presents the pros and cons for a beacon d3 M. However, the voting results aren't in favor at the moment, the signal doesn't close until May 19th. And next up, we have GovAlpha, who submitted a signal request to gauge support for for increasing the minimum threshold to trigger the ESM from 100,000 to 150,000 MKR. This adjustment will help minimize the potential threat of any hostile emergency shutdown if it were to occur. And the reason that the signal is happening now is due to the recent fall of MKR price, which makes it a lot cheaper to trigger an emergency shutdown. The risk to this is that it may be more challenging to perform a beneficial emergency shutdown if needed. And in conclusion, GovAlpha is asking whether we support raising the ESM threshold to 150,000 13:40 MKR. A Artem Gordon 13:44 Next up, we have William who compiled the recent discussions between growth risk and PE to propose an alpha institutional volte. Now ant Alpha was established by ant pool, which is one of the largest mining pools and this institutional volt aims to improve Maker growth of the attempt to boost dye supply help us generate more revenue and proof capital efficiency and also commit as a longtime long term borrower. They also provide in the post mechanisms and proposed terms to support their growth goals. Additional details on the proposed vault are available in the signal request. So check it out. And next up we have shippy proposing to set the lid to 30,000 Dai the rate limiting flapper allows to kick off a new auction if it doesn't increase the total die in auction above the threshold which is the lid unless it's the same value as the lot size. And currently the lid is set to 150,000 Dai and can run up run up to five flap auctions at once. The lot size however is 30,000 Dai and should be proposes to set the lid to the same value as the lot size which is 30,000 to ensure that there can only be one parallel flap auction running at a given time. sacrifice though, we will limit our MKR burn per day from 7 million Dai to one and a half million Dai. Now, the voting ends for this tomorrow, May 13. And next up, we have Andrew bourbon, who asks to react, reactivate, MKR burn, he states that shutting down the burn, also shut down our only revenue distribution model that we have and yet to replace it have something better. These actions may have caused stakeholders to lose some faith and our ability to deliver certain results. And the community and our stakeholders are very important to us. And it's a risk if we do not continue to burn MKR and in times of low prices. In conclusion, Andrew asks the community whether we want to restart the burn with a reduced lid parameter to mitigate certain inefficiencies. And this poll assumes that should be signaled request just recently mentioned to change the lead parameter does pass otherwise, Andrew will issue a second signal request to change the lead parameter. 16:04 Was it it was cancelled? A Andrew Burban 16:08 Yeah, but was it because there was sort of an arbitrary parameter in the community consensus? More important from risk? Foods to device with the Yeah. Okay. Yep. Those magazine feeler conversations to areas. A Artem Gordon 16:29 All right. Well, it was canceled everyone. A Andrew Burban 16:33 Yeah, I also covered the very bottom the last common problem in tragedy. I should change the title. A Artem Gordon 16:42 Yeah, probably. All right. That's cool. We have one last signal request, though. And the last one, Sebastian is moving forward on the proposed balance sheet approach towards an aggressive growth strategy by asking the community whether we want to allocate some of the Maker balance sheet, to EFE. And if we do, how much would we want to invest in E for eath derivatives, Sebastian does present the pros and cons that come with this action. And he also knows that that the signal request is aimed to gauge community desire and sentiment. No priority is currently given and an informal implement, and a formal implementation will have to go through a governance process to continue. And that's it. For more information. I believe there's a couple of more news and announcements, check out the format a glance which is going to be posted soon. So just a couple of edits until I post it but it'll be posted soon. And also monthly Core Unit updates are coming either this Friday or next Monday. Thank you. Awesome, appreciate it. P Prose11 17:50 Thanks for clarifying for us bourbon. Always nice to have everybody on the goals. So we do actually have a initiative update. So my apologies that are based on flicking up the previous week's agenda, I guess you'd say. This week we do have Lucas from sidestream auction services to give us a little presentation about the auction UI and the auction keepers. Lukas if you want to take it away 18:30 Hi everyone. I have sent the recording beforehand to our team have you included it in the presentation or A Artem Gordon 18:37 yes it's in the next slide 18:39 all right perfect. Yeah then I would say we can give it a go here P Prose11 18:46 thanks Lucas mind heavy sheer volume Thomas not so it's just a mind A Artem Gordon 19:05 Oh Tom says because you're muted P Prose11 19:12 could also be a zoom sending 19:15 apologize. L Lucas 19:20 Hi, everyone, this Lucas from such auction services Core Unit. I'm happy to give you today a brief demo on the current state of the Unified auctions Dai. By the way, it wasn't planned to have this recent downturns of the markets in order for us to give an update. Good or sad coincidence, I would say if you want to frame it. Another quick disclaimer, this is a pre recorded walkthrough. So please hold your questions to the end and we're happy to answer them them. So let's get right into it. So what you can see here is our landing page during our work on the auctions, we figured that there is a lot of tools and services out there that are related to the auctions and the doll provider. Have an information. So we started to collect and list them here on this page, so that this page might become an entry point to the broad realm of options in the future. The list is filtered based on the auction type that you're selecting here at the top, since we focused our work on the collateral auctions, for now, I have selected that one. And without further ado, I want to jump directly into the collateral auctions portal that we have built. As a quick recap, for those who are not familiar with UI yet, we are building with a focus on accessibility both in terms of the UI itself, but also with regard to our code base. One of the design decisions that we took back in the day was to have this narration base flow that provides relevant context and allows the user to read basically from top to bottom, in order to understand what is actually going on and what this whole thing is about. The experience user of course, can always switch to the expert mode via this toggle here at the top hiding all of this extra context information. But I will stick to the explanation base mode for now, core piece of this page is the table with active options that allow us to participate or interact with one particular option. Don't get don't get confused by all of these options down here that basically need to restart. This is due to the fact that I am currently on Gurley for this demo purposes. One of the principles in our building process is to never leave the user in the dark. A small example for that is this small indicator here at the top of the table that informs when the table was updated last, since we are researching auction information every 30 seconds. Now let's have a look into one particular auction. It is provided by this auction page. Here at the top you have a table with all relevant auction information. Like when the auction ends, the auction amount, the current auction price, also this little spinner here that gives them information on when the next price drop is going to happen and what the next price struggle is going to be. And then you have a couple of more information on this particular option. But I don't want to go into detail of each row right now. The important part here is that the user now can decide on how to interact with this option. We provide both ways, either bringing own funds to the table and bid on the collateral with own die or via instant settling without any capital requirements, making use of the flesh loan based option participation. This is the flow that we introduced first. Nevertheless, I want to give a quick update on the improvements and adjustments we made to this one. We optimize this final transaction page in the past to provide as much information as possible to the user and also for user to make an informed decision about the auction participation. Again, what we want to prevent is to leave the user in the dark of what's actually going on. So let's quickly have a look on some of the information that is displayed here in the table at the top. Again, you can see this price spinner that we have seen on the previous page already, then we just played the price on uniswap. Since we're finally aiming to exploit an arbitrage opportunity, once the auction price falls below market price. Now don't be confused about this very low eath price. This is due to the fact that I'm using test origin on girly for demo purposes. This is also the reason why for the estimated profitability time, we display that it will likely not be profitable at all. Usually we would show a timer that indicates when the auction is turning profitable, meaning when the auction price will fall below market price. And we calculate that based on the step and cap parameter from the abacus contract for this collateral type. Then there are the important indicators on transaction cross profit and transaction net profit, meaning the profit after transaction fees. Here we display the combined transaction fees. This means that we consider whether the required authorization steps for the wallet have been made already. And if not, they are basically included together with the fees for the actual execution and the end of course, speaking of the general steps that the user needs to make in order to execute the final auction transaction we recently introduced this panel based approach that you can see here with this approach really want to guide the user throughout the whole flow, give hints on what step needs to be executed next and what currently is preventing auction participation. So as a simple example, if I now disconnect A wallet here, you can see that this expandable. What this panel is basically expanded, giving the hint to the user that no wallet is connected currently. If I now quickly reconnect my wallet, everything is looking good. Same for the two authorization transactions that are needed. They have been executed for this wallet in the past, and that's why they are checked. If one of the steps would miss, this panel would be extended as well with another alert notification to the user that he needs to authorize. First, in order to finally execute the automation section. Now, the only alert that we are currently showing is that the transaction gross profit is negative. This is also why we prevent auction execution. Because the next execution with a negative transaction cross profit would result in a reverted error. Now let's turn back to the previous page and look at the other flow to actually participate in auctions. bidding on an auction with old Dai funds was actually the feature that we were lacking in order to have feature parity with the old liquidation portal. And now that we have introduced this feature, the old liquidation portal is deprecated. And it already redirect to the unified options UI that we can see here. So looking into this building with own Dai flow, it basically follows the similar design pattern that we have for the flash loan based auction participation flow. However, of course, we have different interaction possibilities for the user. Again, at the top, we have general information on the auction. And then the most important interaction piece is handled via this input field here, where the user is able to specify the amount in Dai he wants to bid on the collateral. The maximum amount to bid is set via the temporal match parameter, which is basically the depth that needs to be recovered by this auction. And it can always be set by the user by clicking this link. It's also the bid amount that is prefilled by default, but then in this user, I'm able to specify an amount I want to bid. And I will get an indication on the amount to receive of the collateral. Down here. We also cover different edge cases via this input field. As you can see here, there is a minimum left over based on the trust parameter. Meaning that the user is not able to specify a bid amount that is slightly under the maximum bid, because then the auction would result in a leftover that is basically lower than the minimum leftover and it would be an option that is no longer attractive, we can try that out specifying the input amount here to 52k. And we display also in this tooltip here that this value can only be less than the maximum bid minus the minimum leftover, which is these 47.5k that is indicated here or actually the maximum bid. So I will go with the maximum bid for now to look at the other elements of this flow. Again, we have our panel based approach that guides the user throughout the whole flow and it also checks whether all of the pre requirements to add finally bid on the auction are successfully fulfilled. This is the case for the wallet at hand. It also covers the two authorization steps that we already know from the flesh loan based auction participation. What's an additional prerequisite here is that there's sufficient Dai amount deposited to the bat and this is covered via this pen here. So you can see here the figures Dai amount in the wallet attend the amount of dye that is already deposited to the VAT. This in this case right now is enough in order to cover the bit that is specified here. Otherwise, the user would be notified by a red message here saying that more dye needs to be deposited first in order to place them with the whole interaction with the rod. So depositing and withdrawal dye to and from the VAT is facilitated via the pop up that you can see here. Same approach down here with the panel based design a user is able to specify the amount that needs to be deployed. legit truth about if this amount exceeds the amount of dye that is actually available in the wallet, the positing is disabled and the user is notified why that is, in this case, there is no sufficient amount of dye present in the connected wallet to do this transaction. same holds true for the withdrawal. Exactly. And then the last part of this whole flow, once a user has placed a successful bid, obtain some of the collateral or all of it by at this auction, the user is able to withdraw this collateral from the bat to the wallet via the button down here. In the case attend, I have participated with this wallet in previous options. So, for example, I would be able now to withdraw 1.05 from the bat to the wallet at hand. As a last remark, a user is always able to manage the Dai in the vat by the pop up he has chosen, it's also accessible via the header. So there is no reliance on an active Archie. This can be done at any time by the user. same holds true for the withdrawal of collaterals. From the right to the wallet, it's facilitated via the pop up that you can see here, where the user is able to withdraw collateral from but the user is also able via this pop up to pre authorized for certain collateral types. For example, to use low gas prices, when there is no active auction, you might wonder why we display here certain collateral types that are already on boarded. This is true, but due to the fact that we are not hard coding the collateral types, but fetching them automatically from the chain block contract. So this is it for an overview on the current state of the Unified auctions UI. Feel free to give feedback. It's always welcome. I hope you're still sticking with me because as a last agenda point, I quickly want to jump into our repository and give you a sneak peek on the keeper implementation that we have done. Our keeper implementation can be found within our open source repository unified origins UI. The main idea from the beginning was to have this modular approach with a folder that actually contains the core logic and can serve both the UI that I just demonstrated, but also the keeper implementation, which can be found in the bot folder. I'm not going to spin up the keeper now as part of this demo, but refer to the readme of this folder, where all of the information on how to set up the bot and what environment variables can be set in order to configure the bot can be found. To quickly walk through. We are currently only supporting in for a project ID, but actively working on the support for custom RPC URLs as well. Then one needs to specify the Ethereum network the bot will run on. One can whitelist certain collateral types. An operator is also able to specify the max priority fee that is passed the refreshing interval for the bots to fetch the auctions. And then, besides a private key, an operator also has to specify the minimum net profit of an auction before the keeper will actually bid on it. With that set. Thanks for listening now is really the end of this demo. I hope you enjoyed a little bit. feedback is welcome as always. And yeah, happy to answer your questions. Now live in the call. Thanks again. P Prose11 34:12 Awesome, that was a great video. Thanks. So Lucas for putting that together. kind of leave off where where you did there and ask the call. If there are any questions, any follow ups from that video? A quick thank you for putting up with the audio visual stuff. All right, I see a question from vatter in the chat. are we tracking usage of the UI now in the market? So basically asking if we can tell when when users are using the UI to to participate? L Lucas 34:56 Yeah, so what we basically did is fetching all of the data Like events, for example, that happened this week to give some numbers on that. There were 200 round about 250 Auctions taken. And then as kind of a proxy, we investigate investigated which of these take events made use of the colleague contracts that we're using. And the number was 47. And this is kind of the proxy that you can work with. Since the UI uses this call the contract, our keeper uses it, and also the auction demo keeper. So this is kind of an approximation 35:41 on the the actual usage, it's not limited, as I said, to the UI itself, but it could also be that the keeper was used or the auction demo keeper. But that's kind of the closest number that we have right now. P Prose11 36:00 Awesome, that makes sense. And it's really cool. They have the keeper code base set up there as well. Bladder also asked. L Lucas 36:17 So in this bot folder that you could see during the demo, there's also Twitter bots that we have So in this bot folder that you could see during the demo, there's also Twitter bots that we have in place. Basically, we are tweeting about every auction that is started. And of course we will bribe growth P Prose11 36:33 get this fresh free treats. Going to spend very generously I don't anticipate that being a problem. But yeah, just as a side comments awesome to see that many people already taken part in using this I know we had several auctions over the last few days might come up as a topic a little later. So great that we have the infrastructure ready to go alright other questions or comments about this either the UI the keeper stats in general and founder sharing the Twitter there for anyone who hasn't followed already? Yeah, it's nice to see your progress as a winter's coming in the side. And we're really thank you for putting together such a concise video, sorry, the audio and visual and weren't as good on on our end, but we'll be sure to post the direct link, both in the recap and on the forum so others can can grab it. Yeah, okay. I can say something in the background. Yes. So we still have a lot of things that we first when I got done actually. We can talk about it. Awesome. All right, final call. Any last questions or comments? Thanks again, Lucas, I really appreciate it both video and answering questions here. Live. Some of our recognized delegates echoing that. Thanks. Wonderful. With that, Thomas, we'll go ahead and move on. Appreciate you dealing with audio things on the phone and it can be stressful posting a zoom. 38:49 All right, that's no problem. Thank you, Payton. Appreciate that. We're going to move on to our discussion segment. And today, we have a very pertinent topic, I believe, looking at asset and liability management. Strategic Finance is here to lead this discussion. And I'd like to go ahead and hand that off to him. So we can get get moving on this should be healthy discussion. S Sebastien Derivaux 39:26 I would choose Skype chat for those that want to flow everywhere. I think you have the site as well in your in your deck. P Prose11 39:35 Yeah, perfect. S Sebastien Derivaux 39:37 So those orders data are updated this morning in Europe. So around the 10am in Europe. I don't think they've changed too much. But obviously they've changed a lot since yesterday. So it's basically an update of a post I made on the forum on the evolution of the liquid several coin liquidity of Make it out and see what's going on since I we add in February 15, where we were almost up to 10 billion Dai or just above 10 billion, then depending on how you count as the day on which front end you use, and to see what was evolution, and what, last month of last three months more precisely, and this week, it was doing an impact on the liquidity. Why is it important, it's important to have liquidity on OPSM and we will talk about many of the SM because that's a good way to get to be sure that Dai is always worse wonderla as a main tool to defensive back on the downside, so we don't get Dai below wonderla obviously is the same for the above WonderLab but that's not an issue because there is always people that can deposit USDC but in the PSM but when there is no longer USDC G USD or USDP in the PSM while we cannot be sure that Dai is always a wonderla There are also tools and we will discuss them later but in for in the block by block the solution the PSM is the best one to defend zippay So we started in the situation where we had 6 billion of stable coin liquidity on in mid February. So that was a lot and we see that wasn't good Nisa because that means that also USD, CG USD and USDP are not doing anything and are not generating revenues, which doesn't allow us to increase the DSR or by better use it to buy bikers to burn some Maker token so to reward the Maker token holders, so it wasn't perfect, but it was very safe from a liquidity investment team. Since then, we have obviously the bear market means that much some people have repaid loans it is able to make it out. And when you are repaying a loan from By sourcing new Dai what you are doing more or less is creating increasing the PSM because if you repay your loan, the day demand stays the same. Usually, and repaying the loan just means that someone else has to deposit one USDC into PSN. That was a 1 billion positive effect on the liquidity. But set wasn't much compared to the old those were the effects. The biggest one would be the dex LPs. So as we will see later, it was mainly curl as it was a drain of Hama Dai then we have bridges. So Dai that were used on also L twos are side chains that are no longer used that much on side chains lending protocol also decreasing the usage of Dai for from many reasons, that may be mainly because we are in a bear market. So there is less demand to borrow. And some a few other items that will not the typical it's quite small. So as of today, we are at just below 3 billion of liquidity. Still a lot because we no longer we have only 6 billion Dai issued so there is only 6 billion Dai that can be converted to to us so to USD CR 20 stable coin. So is that still a very good no mas was I was in distress on this site, but still something we need to discuss today on zoominfo evolution, so when it's, you can see the evolution of as a main as a VIP Baba that we track, because we know that our address, as you can see, it's many Nexo and seltzers and seven farmers that have reduced their loan as borrowings for MakerDAO. The only ones that have increased their borrowing is communities that are managing the Treasury and using MakerDAO. 43:57 Really, next slide, right. S Sebastien Derivaux 43:58 Oh, yeah, so next slide. Yeah. Thanks, man. Yeah. So you can see in wet reduction of exposure and as I said reduction in Boeing's is increasing the PSM by side effect due to arbitrage up close, it's a good proxy. And while seven farmer is using Dai and keeping those days to do some yield farming activities or at least was the case in the past, next year, instead shoes are lending us dollars to their clients. So when they repay the loan, they are sourcing Dai in the market rupees. So they are next so instances when the rupee is alone now very closely increasing the separate PSM by one USDC to USD or USD. So that was a manufacturer Next slide please. So this is the amount of each asset stat is only advisor three, curve three pool. So as you can see at the beginning, June 1 of this year there was almost 6 billion of assets in the calf pool. The reason of this big liquidity is due to the incentives of frogs and TR for the meta pool. That says, the main reason because the free pool doesn't need that much paywalls. And going forward, you can see that it was decreasing but still keeping a good analogy proportion of each stable coin. And even in February, there was less USD T. 's and others it was an imbalance with electricity. But starting this, this, this week, the imbalance of not enough USD T was counterbalanced by another exposition to dsdt. As you might have seen this morning, USD T was traded up to 95 cent. So that was the reason why the pool was depleted. And as a side effect, as we add almost 2 billion of dye at the beginning of the year, in three pool. Obviously it was the eyes are no longer there. And I've been swapped for something else. So that means that the impact is that we have three 2 billion Dai demands that are removed. So as a PSM is decreased by almost 2 billion. Next slide, please. Now we can focus on other chain bridges, it's many three chains that matters, removed all those that don't matter that much. We have other lunch, where we lost us 75 76% of the day exposure, there are two reasons for that. And as you can see on the right picture of an Xbox is was quite big as the impact of his target where we are not including this target, who also people have switched a little bit to to USDC and usdt. And there was a change in the incentive structure on other v3 on our backs. So dialers are not only if you wanted as much as also a stable coin. So that means that most people have just switched from Dai to beta yielding stable coin, which I think is many USDC. That was a case of avalanche and Phantom. It's a bit different. You can see a big spike when solidi lounged, and then it was fading out but such mainly due to solidity that didn't take much. And the Phantom train is quite done. Overall, on pretty go in, it's kind of the same story. It's just a bear market that makes it last last Tuesday, but it's not too much Dai related. But as you can see that explain avalanche fundamentally going to explain much of the loss on those averages, and it's quite significant. So bottom line, those Dai were migrated to this chain to get liquidity farming. And when the liquidity farming stopped, obviously, this was they were just disappeared, because they are there was no reason to get those Dai there. Next slide, please. We will not focus on the lending platform usages. And as you can see, it's mainly on Well, it's mainly due to main tool platforms, cream component and Avi. I don't follow much cream. So I don't know what happened why there is no not anymore. But as you can see component is decreasing market share since the beginning of the year. One reason might be because while it's average just maybe more a little bit more relevant. Now, some yield on is because seems to stick is so that makes it borrowing and lending on stable coin is more profitable, which was at that as you can see event on eBay to drop it out. So the last few days, which absolutely makes sense as there is a dealer market. And so the busines those were 200 million dies, Zaza dies of observed difference. Next slide please. So, this is a summary slide on where we are now and what should we do. If you look at the shot on the bottom left, it's where it's Dai queries that I maintain and you can see what is exposure, what is usage of Dai onshape on Ethereum and one. And you can see the lending protocols, you can see the texts that are shrinking the bridges and so on. But if you look at the bottom in that burn, you can see externally only the addresses and what is very interesting in this category is that it's growing or at least nurturing Keep. And it's really it's a case for a long period of time that well, when Dai goes to the novices, they tend to not move too much. I don't know exactly what why is Dai is used as those advices. It can be just someone wanting to old some dice, because for pleasure for isn't just for liquidity preference also, but they are not choosing this Dai too much. Or at least it stays in external neonate addresses. So I create to bed work of are getting are getting Dai organic, because those people are not speculating on anything that say are just holding Dai. Because it's a stable coin. And it's securely 3.4 billion, it is possible that the situation will change in the future. But as you can see, going forward, looking in the back. So we have we had a crash in January, we now have another kind of crush, and it doesn't move significantly, the amount of Dai owned by externally Omega races, so we can expect that possibly, it will not change in the future as well. So it's kind of a button of Dai demand. If we look at the usage that we do from the capital, giving visors Dai, as a non stable coin exposure, currently 3 billion, so we are below this bedrock of funding. So that's kind of 40, BDR, 40 and 40 million refer to continue to deploy Dai. So even worst case, all the lending stuff, all the taxis are drain, all the bridges are emptied, we still have a 400 million Dai of buffer. So I think we can continue to deploy Dai with different projects that we are pursuing. With could we should still be cleaning the 200 million Dai that are stuck in the USDC, a USDP. A and GSD a vault, those were words that were done before the PSM that are no longer used, because every client is underwater. And we just have to move those coin those stable coin farms as volt to the PSN that are contained as public on liquidity because what as typical liquidity we just have to do. So making maintenance of moving those coins funds as opposed to the PSM. And we we have to think about what should we do if the situation goes worse? What are the strategy we should pursue. And so we will define that stubbled called liquidity in crisis mode should could be below 1.5 billion Dai on the PSM of stablecoin liquidity, which is still quite a large amount, and we can discuss that obviously. So the first step would probably be to increase target rate for the FIA. So this will remove the Dai exposure on average, it reaches between 100 and 300 million of Dai savings or liquidity increase. But actually, it works only for part of it. Because not all dies that we put on the elbowed, and those that are not behold are not in particular the price of above dice. So if we take them back, it will not move the price on here. We can also increase the stability fee on the Dai USDC LPS as our service fee, very low. It's not super strategic, but we still alphabet and Dai that are sitting on those LPS under Support. Here again, it's Alpha billion, that even if we remove all this exposure, the impact on the PSM it will be only alpha fit, because actually it was volte, we have with us DC Dai s criterial, which is a very, very high leverage. So that means that if we unwind everything, it will remove RF on the asset side on the critical side and on the Dai site. So it will be full of survey site. So it's not 100% impactful and so the net effect on cbsm will be only an increase of around 200 million Dai as the next step would be to increase the GSR, Dai Singh rate. So people might be incentivized if you give them a good rate on Dai to just all die just to take the risk free rate. But obviously, it's not something that can do in the short term and which if we want people to move quickly on it, so yield should be quite interesting. And obviously that's costly. And last item we can do is increase the stability fees or, or the vaults but obviously this will affect your competitiveness. and customer relationship, you cannot increase the Sharpies, interest rates you are taking on words and expect customer to be happy. We have no promise to them to keep rates as well. But still, it's a customer relationship. So we should be careful with that. And that was for me and happy to answer question or have a discussion starting? P Prose11 55:24 Looks like we had a few comments. But most relevant, relevant to what you recently said not yet asked what or when? Or what should happen to know that we need to act fast in a situation where liquidity is dropping them. And S Sebastien Derivaux 55:39 yeah, so it's very difficult. So it's not that fast. But it's better to have solutions already in place when we need to just execute. So currently, we cannot wait for one month of governance discussions before if you need to move fast when to move to be able to move fast. But yeah, so we put a placeholder of 1.5 billion is a PSM. That's when we need to start to rush. P Prose11 56:09 So thanks for having that clarity. I know everyone had a few questions. I don't know if you want to tap on the microphone, but I'm afraid to ask if not. R Rune Christensen 56:19 Yeah, I'll just ask myself, but I think the the other one of the questions got answered pretty much for clarity, or transparency, or whatever I was, I was asking if there was a clear split of the work between what SAP is doing here. And basically whether we're avoiding double work within risk and promotion. And said that that's not the case. And there's like a clear avoidance of overlap, which is great. But so my question is like, assuming we use metallics, like theoretical structure similar to metallus. Then in the current situation, how much how many stable coins? Do you think like how much USDC you think we need to hold on chain that we simply could not put into bonds today to reasonably defend a pig? And then lead How high do you think we could set a kind of baseline Dai savings rate? S Sebastien Derivaux 57:16 Yeah, so you're speaking about the 65. Price. They're not also monetarists, I think, which is a more illiquid private credit. So it's really interesting, R Rune Christensen 57:29 potential sort of open, right. I mean, I'm thinking about like, so I'm not talking about maybe 65. Siblings, I think sort of, theoretically, if we took a doubler model of let's target as many stable coins, we need to keep the peg and then just dump the rest into monetize and similar structures using sort of super liquid. Yeah, super liquid. S Sebastien Derivaux 57:47 Yeah. So we have been working on that. The main issue, obviously, if everything is frictionless, we should do keep as little as possible in the PSM because we don't get anything the PSM and short term bonds are quite liquid, or we can use some very liquid path, like treasury bills and do just what circuit is doing. And it kind of works fine for them, as a problem is actually most more on the implementation side as our costs involved in brokerage. And so far, it's not super clear, what are those costs at the end, but there will be some friction. So it will be not friction. So which we will be, we would have to keep a good buffer into the PSM. I think I've said a 15%. In the past, we don't have definitive numbers. And it will depend mainly on your answer sheet we get when we want to go out of the shop and bonds. Currently nothing is done, actually. So it should be too early to tell. R Rune Christensen 58:49 So thanks for that answer your question, I think I think it makes sense that basically, the friction of going in and out of bonds is actually going to really determine this. of going in and out of bonds is actually going to really determine this. S Sebastien Derivaux 58:58 Yeah. If it's 10 basis points. Well, it's not the end of the day if it's 1% Well, that's a big issue P Prose11 59:10 thanks very long had something on dance. Always take the chance to call on Eli. I like it's like it's this question more of a sort of comment. But I was sort of, I guess I'm kind of recognizing that we have the mechanisms to resolve the PEC thing. Dropping it like falling to the downside right in the DSR and or stability is 59:34 the only issues with those that they're like like more long term mechanisms versus the PSM which is a very short term, like immediate mechanism. L LongForWisdom 59:43 So I think something that might be wise is to set up like an IAM or something the that increases the DSR along some curve as like the PSM liquidity drains from like, our maximum desired percentage to like 0% Basically, because then in theory You should, you should get like a clear signal basically as to when your liquidity is like strange, right? Because that will drop, the DSR will increase. It will just like delay that entire or it should just like delay that entire P Prose11 1:00:14 like that entire period right from being like almost immediate if the PSM MTS and zone crash to hopefully over a longer period, because the DSR like automatically responds by increasing has to be a hindrance. So like, I guess my kind of point is, maybe our solution should be just to like, start using our long term fix earlier in this situation, S Sebastien Derivaux 1:00:36 right. Are you saying that we should have a smart contract that is permissionless that check if the PSM is below one certain threshold? It will increase the DSR automatically? Yes, exactly. Yeah, I think that's at some point we should get there. Because obviously governance is a bit too small, too slow, and smarter, most effective way to solve this problem. If we have scenarios that we always that is fine, as are plenty of solutions. Because the GSR was never was trying 2020 Min Min, maybe now it's a bit different, the market is quite different. So who knows what would happen if we increase DSR to 2%. With that being an impact, it's not super clear. We can also discuss that, as far as I'm not wanting to speak about Odin is on the balance sheet. But if you're some kind of assets that can be used as a repo on eBay, you can sell some equities as well, I know that Fe protocol, for instance, is trying to do that, as they have a lot of ease on the balance sheet. And they could if there is a need of liquidity, they could use those ease with them on eBay and both Dai or USDC to meet the demand in different back. So there are plenty of such kind of thing that we can do. And yeah, just as there was just a need to implement them and move slowly and carefully. And those P Prose11 1:02:09 if we were to do this, you know, obviously the DSR comes from the surplus buffer. So the surplus buffer has to be replenished by stability fees. So do we imagine some sort of like bonded curve as the PSM is empty for the DSR, but then the rates group or governance is setting instability fees to pay for the DSR increase? Is that the idea? L LongForWisdom 1:02:33 Yeah, that was kind of how I imagined it right. Like you would use the DSR to hopefully like deal with the issue in the short term. And then once you kind of see where it settles, you can use you can either choose to increase the SF or not, or, you know, depending on what the general like income revenue situation looks like. S Sebastien Derivaux 1:02:52 And recommend just made a good command to say, well, we can automate as well as increase of stability fees. I don't know if you want to chime in. Mm hmm. But that's correct, as well. So the question is just increasing the DSR doesn't impact the borrowers. And it might be that we need to increase the DSR above actual local news. So we are making a loss. That's just a temporary solution until we governance fixes a problem by raising the stability fees or something else. P Prose11 1:03:22 I think. One thing we didn't mention the last slide was that we still have a number of stable coin vaults that can be like liquidated into the respective BSMS. And that'll that'll help shore up a little bit of the PSM. So I mean, it's a it's a temporary solution if we start to get close to empty but, but that is a trigger, we can pull. S Sebastien Derivaux 1:03:59 Yeah, yes, that's a 235 million Dai is that all the vote? I mean, it's not game changer, but it's still a 200 million that maybe wouldn't be important 1:04:11 at some point. Yeah, P Primoz Kordez 1:04:17 I might just said we realistically hold about 4 billion of stable clients. P Prose11 1:04:23 There's 3 billion in PSM. There's half a billion if you count in G Jonas, as well. P Primoz Kordez 1:04:29 And this abandoned stable coin wallets, but then there's this usdt issue that's getting resolved. So the BSM increased by 100 million just in the last hour. kind of expecting this will again increase the Dai holdings in curb so and then the BSM will increase as well. So I think we're gonna end at about 4 billion but that I agree with everything you said. S Sebastien Derivaux 1:04:55 Yeah, so we should have a positive impact of the curve. Getting into balance that curve is sometimes very slow to go into balance as amplification factor is quite insane, so difficult to predict all right, 1:05:23 really good discussion so far. Is there any other thoughts feedback comments, we want to add to this K Kirk 1:05:36 just mentioned that the way a lot of other stable coins that P Prose11 1:05:42 struggle with low cake issues have to deal with it is by you know, incentivization on curve pools. That's, that's another cool and Toolbox potentially. K Kirk 1:05:58 Especially I worried that the, you know, DSR and s stability fee raises, you know, those are slow mechanisms. And there may be structural reasons, we can't raise them high enough to achieve the effects we want more or they may be they come with harmful demand, destruction, side effects, something to keep in mind. S Sebastien Derivaux 1:06:22 And also the discussion of short term, or at least effective the discussion we can have. But one key point of this site is as well is really the purple part of Dai on the bottom left, which is what I call organic Dai. And there is a paper of TJ in the farm. And that if you can make people to old Dai just because it's just a good stable coin, and they use it for their daily payment and stay in circulation, and they are just using it ready for cash. That's the best tool we can because that's sticky. And liquidity farming incentives are not sticky. P Prose11 1:07:05 Isn't that what the purple on your on your graphs here is telling us is that there's a lot of viewers that are probably using as a flight to safety. At least during like the market turbulence. S Sebastien Derivaux 1:07:17 Yeah, but it's not zoo increases, it was last week is not that big. So honestly, I don't know. And don't know why I didn't make the search exactly of what's using for and so on. But this would be a good subject to know what why is our ordering died in, in such a world. P Prose11 1:07:44 I did want to make one comment when you were discussing that the idea that we could count on that sort of purple, you know, a demand as being reasonably static. I think that's probably not true. When we start to see the depths of a bear market and more like sort of bullish action. My guess is most of the people in purple are going to dump it for volatile assets, they think they can make gains on and that will put a lot of downward pressure on the peg. So that's another event to prepare for, where we maybe want to have have at least like a couple tools in our toolbox to I mean, we have a ton of tools in our toolbox already. But yeah, having them pre canned and ready to go. It'd be nice not to have like a an acute, low with like deep egg event, although it's completely possible with a mechanism design that that happens N Nadia Alvarez 1:08:48 regarding the stickiness of time, one of the things that we do is we work hard to have Dai integrated in as many exchanges wallets daps on whatever you may think. But again, I repeat, this is like the gum the chicken problem like this daps and projects and exchanges need liquidity. So that's why you have to see and usdt are sticky is because liquidity and how we see it's to how we see how cheap is to convert it to fiat. So let's just like remember that for a while to get that stickiness, we have also to work on increase the liquidity. And I think like the next step for that is is the multi changes strategy. I think once we start working with layer twos, and side chains, the other networks and have Maker bolts there that will allow us to work closer with other apps ecosystems and increase integrations, like tie your integrations where other projects and have more use cases around Dai. Because if not, it's it's super hard 1:10:26 All right, thank you, Nadia. And thank you, everyone for all your great comments, Sub Zero anything else or risk? Any other comments you guys want to talk about? We've got a lot of stuff going on in the chat that wanted to see if there's anything else we wanted to point out before we move on to our 1:10:45 open discussion. Now, that's it for me. Well, 1:10:54 thank you very much for your presentation. Peyton, is there anything else we want to add before we move on to open discussion? P Prose11 1:11:03 No, I think everyone did a nice job of adding in and asking questions. We do have about 15 minutes here before we normally in the call. So seems fair to toss it out to everyone and say, Are there aspects of what we just talked about? Or perhaps totally different lines of thought that you'd like to explore for the last little bit today? 1:11:35 All right, the floor is open. Something the chat room says how many regular Maker holders are here P Prose11 1:11:52 means to find regular. That's pretty good. Yeah, that is a interesting bit as well as something I'm curious about is yeah, what our meeting composition looks like. Obviously, it's much easier to get demographics on recorded views, but perhaps it's worthwhile to survey for anyone who is here and is not directly tied to the Core Unit. room saying not Core Unit non delegate. Non counterparty mother call number one that would bring people in 1:12:38 Yeah, that's a 1:12:39 1:12:39 good question. 1:12:42 Good question for a zoom poll. Thank you, Kalyan, for that All right. Any any any other thoughts comments questions? On says he can try and do a poll. lol P Prose11 1:13:08 Just clicking here my buttons. I want to give it I have, N Nadia Alvarez 1:13:14 I have one comment while we wait for longer. And he does support and is that I have been receiving a lot of comments from partners and people everywhere. Like being happy for us and amazed on how the market is crashing but Maker is shield and Dai is still add one. So yeah, I don't know if you have received this income insight. I think you you do have an also like we didn't plan this but I don't have you know that we started sponsoring the bandulus podcast. So it's funny because a lot of people now are listening and trying to learn more about Tara because of what happened and like we were what you started sponsoring it and and they recorded one episode talking about Tara so everyone is like listening to this podcast that I shared and at the same time they are listening about Maker and the Origins like wow, that's amazing. So yeah, I just wanted to share this awesome news that we are receiving a lot of good comments P Prose11 1:14:29 and it's good to highlight Thanks, man. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a stressful Market Week. So nice to be the ones to be sticking around. We're investigating this poll. R Rune Christensen 1:14:45 I guess is that was I had this meet you know, I've been doing these DAO singularity whatever Well, now it's name is deprecated. Now I guess we call them maybe end game plan meetings or something that leads me meetings have been doing. And the goal has been this plan to try to sort of overhaul governance for the long term read. And I've not, you know, given the reason events in particular, you know, I think basically, now's the time to, to sort of actually begin implementation. And so the very first thing I have to do is Tuesday at 5pm, I'm doing the first of these things are called voter committees, which is basically just on a theoretical, you know, something anyone can do at anytime, right, which is basically a bunch of MKR. Let's get together and discuss what's there in their interest to vote for. So today, basically, voting decisions mainly occur in these like sort of close meetings between delegates and coordinates. Sometimes there's meetings between coordinates and like VCs, and sometimes it's like meetings between collateral applicants and VCs or delegates as well. Right. But the point is all the decision making is happiness, these essentially close meetings. Right. And I think it's, it's completely sort of, you know, it's sort of working, it's causing things to backslide, and essentially, right. And so what I think is extremely important is that we bring the decision making process in particular, this sort of caucusing, right of like, sort of aligning votes, and so measuring voting power, and even considering opposing voting power. And, and through that, basically, you know, just create way more clarity, right, and then, more importantly, set ourselves up to actually do a kind of the kind of overhaul that I believe the DAO needs. So yeah, that's on Tuesday 5pm CST, and I'm going to be posting on the forum and stuff. But in general, I just think it's like, really, you know, I want to try to I mean, my impression is that MKR holders that aren't being paid in any in any way, they feel sort of frustrated and disenfranchised right now, to a large extent. And I think I mean, big reason that this obviously makes a lot of sense is that all the people that are not, you know, Core Unit delegates, collateral Africans, they also paid to be here, in a sense, right? I have very strong incentive to be here and to to, you know, and there's a full time professional, he dedicated to the space. And in capitalism, he just like, volunteers basically, typically have very little stake actually. So, you know, so like a meeting like this, which I would consider sort of a basically like a Core Unit thing, right. So this is basically like a meeting run by the coordinates, right. You know, it, it's actually difficult. I would think that right now to get sort of just like the pure opinion of MKR holders to come out of this kind of situation, right. And that's what I want to create a kind of, you know, to use the term safe space, right for the elders, where we can simply discuss what is in the interest of the elders. And, and by the way, MC does want to acknowledge a C. acre invest, which is a delegate kianga. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Do you want N Nadia Alvarez 1:18:23 guys wondering, I just wanted to mention newer, I mean, I just become a recognized delegate in December. And so I'd love more color, if this is the right forum on the closed meetings. And I've heard, I've heard this impression as well, from other parts of the community that there are these sort of where there's this perception of the real decisions happening. And I just want to for transparency, let everyone know, I'm not in any of these meetings. 1:18:56 So I, I just love to understand it more those dynamics, and I want to be part of any solution. And so if this Monday, is this Monday meeting, something that makes sense for delegates to attend N Nadia Alvarez 1:19:13 to hear we talked yesterday and the strategic initiative kickoff, the difficulty of the feedback loop, right. I mean that for for delegates to know what the views of Maker holders actually are potentially on issues and for Maker holders to know our views or our policies or how we're likely to vote. But I just want to say for the record that I vote my conscience, so to speak, I'm not caucusing with anyone to give me input on what I should vote for, and so I hope that any Maker holder can get to know my views and I look forward to being as transparent about that as possible. And that my view on being a delegate is is kind of, yeah, to offer service to the DAO and its wider stakeholders, and that if my participation is viewed as valuable, and an alignment with Maker holders, then I'll get that delegation. But I absolutely in favor of what you're suggesting in terms of, you know, avoiding the perception or the actual kind of, I don't know, how to categorize it, but any kind of decision making are conversations that are harming the trust factor that the community has, as well as outside stakeholders. R Rune Christensen 1:20:50 So I just really want to make some comments, because I just wanted to note that like, so basically, there's a lot of stuff happening all over the coordinates, and sort of the sort of, I mean, I would argue that there's a kind of, there's a kind of entity that has almost fallen, right, it's all about, like, you know, some of the structure of some salt, right, that has emerged basically, with I mean, like, I like to call it the bureaucracy, right, this sort of amalgamation of the coordinates, and the delegates and even certain collateral counterparties and sort of based build mainly on these relationships between people, right. And, as I saw all of natural evolution of that you have these meetings where things are decided. And the reality is that everyone's been doing this in the interest of trying to get anything done, right. Because the, you know, the decentralized process of Maker is just so incredibly complex. And some of has, among other things, this issue of like, complexity spiraling, like, we keep getting more and more complex. And so as a result, like, you know, I just think it's really important to especially based on what I just said, right to note that, you know, like, I don't think that there is no sort of blame or like trust issue or sort of trust. Factor or something on that, in terms of the fact that this is happening, because, I don't know, in hindsight, nothing could have been avoided at all. So I think that, you know, it's like an in general, there's a lot to sort of peel back. And a lot of, you know, I'm, you know, my sort of history with the project means that I get exposed to a lot of the sort of the, behind the scenes stuff that's happening. And I can say that, like, there's a whole bunch of, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, what do you call it best off, I'm gonna call it like, lots of like politics and conflict and inefficiency. And that kind of stuff that just occurs in this kind of situation. I mean, that would naturally occur in any organization, but absolutely explode and like a decentralized, weird sort of pseudo organization, right, that has organically emerged. And, and so I just, you know, I think we should look at this. As scholars you look forward on this is my, you know, enlighten it basically not try this out or blame or or worry about what organically emerged, because ultimately, and this is kind of what I've arrived at the conclusion is, it has to be some kind of, you know, you need some kind of major initiative to try to really build things properly from the ground, which is what I will attempt, right, and there's simply no, like, it can't be especially on retro actively expected that the coordinates should have figured it out on their own basically. I just want to make that clear, right? Because I'm, I'm worried that the reaction to this could be something like, okay, let's let some of find out some scandal or something, right. Because I mean, well, basically, it's, you know, $60 million budget and a billion dollar DAO with hundreds of, you know, more than 100 people. So, of course, there's like, some scandals, drama or whatever, but there's no point in trying to dig into that. Rather, we need to think about what can we sort of what can we constructively do from here? N Nadia Alvarez 1:24:20 Rune. I have been, like, reading these comments on Discord. But like, it's always generic. Like you're now saying everything is just in a generic way. So it's hard for me to understand what's really happening because yes, of course, we have meetings with other cartoonists and we don't invite the community or delegates Yes, but it's just because first person, sometimes we have to discuss sensitive information with other care units to start proposing stuff. thing to the Maker. And it's super difficult to, like, have these conversations with sensitive information in a transparent way with the in the forum, because like, first, sometimes we are forced to sign an NDA to have these conversations with counterparties. So if sometimes if we want to, like do something, we need to work in private, and then when we have like, the deal almost closed, we go and present it to the community, because we have to wait until governance decides if that's what they want to do or not. And I think we, as Core Unit, we are all aligned, aligned on that, that we respect Maker governance, and we know that Maker holders decide what are we should do or not. But you have to understand that sometimes we can discuss everything. And I'm going to like, give you an example. Because again, I think talking about things in general is hard to understand with institutional votes. You also they do have an alpha? We have been working on that for the last, I don't know, six months. And yeah, for you, the community is like it happened yesterday. And there is this alpha guy posting in the forum with all this information and they structure this deal. Well, no, we have been working on that with them. And we are like putting Maker interest first to have the best deal that we can. So what can we do in that when we have these type of opportunities that can be discussed openly in the forum? Because yes, we are about but like these companies, entities, they are not doubts on some of them. They they need privacy. R Rune Christensen 1:27:04 Thanks, man. Yeah. So I just want to come well, so I just saw like, there was this comment from Sam earlier asking are just asking you about the voter Committee, which, you know, really a subject isn't I mean, maybe you can think of it as like a meta structure or something like that, right. But it's not something that sort of, in a way it's not in, it's not a part of Maker, formal governance structure, right, because this is just essentially, it's just, in a way a private call, with MKR holders showing up. And then the MKR holders, through sort of their, you know, through the fact that it's a private call arrangement gal does basically ensure that MPR holders get to talk, right. And then the purpose of the call is to align on voting behavior, right, and also align on who to delegate to. And so the idea is, so the point is, it needs to like the whole point is the decision making process has to become transparent. Right. So when you, you need to not only understand what are the decisions that have been made? What are the why were they made? Right? And how can you verify that? If you dig into the Why do you run into some kind of conflict of interest? Right, which is one of the main the big concerns of opacity. Right? Which, I mean, it's and it's not like, I think that's a real problem today, like, I don't, I think, you know, like, a lot of these issues that I want, I believe we need to tackle are, it's a question of scalability and sustainability, not about like, there's someone that has some major conflict of interest right now. And we need to deal with that or something, because I don't think that's the case. But basically, the point is that anyone can listen in and you know, needs to be recorded, it needs to be completely sort of preserve, right and very transparent, so that it's no longer close meetings. But it needs to be a call like needs to be MKR holders that do the talking basically, right need to be empowered to decide if we want some external input, like from from someone in the in the workforce, for instance, right? We sort of decide who and what we want to hear, right. And we recognize that ultimately, there is a principal agent relationship right between MPR holders and and the various profession professional actors and ecosystem basically. Yeah, and that will, I hope, right when we create this conflict, some something along the lines of like a concept like a safe space where MKR will feel more emboldened and empowered to actually speak up, right, because my impression right now is that that most MKR holist just don't like if like, there's not really sort of, I would say sort of, you know, like, you know, waste of support for like the general way. I mean, I'm not saying that there's like, like, the problem is there's also no, there's no specific input, right. But there's just like a general sort of discontent with the whole sort of with the whole thing, in a sense, right? But it's not, there's no feel like there's no way for that to be properly conveyed, right? Because there's no like, you know, I mean, there's no structure for that. And so that's what I want to create mine. And then develop from there, right. And then I have this whole large scale proposal that I'm basically developing and trying to propose that would have a bunch of next steps that just go further to try to go down this path of like, let's try to fix governance and make it really work for the long run right, and make it really solid with with the checks and balances and everything that can sort of follow from taking these initial steps of creating motor committees P Prose11 1:31:04 kind of wanted to get boisterous. And what what's going on in the chat right now, think clatters kind of tying it together pretty well, in terms of talking about opportunities to speak and organize, right? Like we can have these open GNR calls and MKR holders can hop on, but realistically, it'll be a few of them versus a lot of protocol people that, you know, spend all of our time working on this, it's like quite an intimidating environment. And likewise, it's very easy for Core Unit to coordinate with one another, right? Like it's even our job and in many cases to talk to other Core Unit and to have these meetings to talk strategy and vision and all these other things. Whereas the same open framework doesn't quite exist for MKR holders. So, you know, from from a governance standpoint, I see this as like trying to address that kind of fundamental problem of organization, which is that like, well, we're giving resources right to a bunch of people in core units, but especially with no burn the MKR holder resources aren't aren't aren't happening. So makes it hard to organize and makes it harder for for people to align on vision. Yeah, just wanted to tie that in, because it seems like that's going back and forth on chat a little bit. I'm noting the time but this is like a big an important discussion. So yeah, I'm willing to let it go on for a little bit. But I'll also keep everyone's schedule in mind. Cool, aren't seeing anyone up on. So I think I will take this opportunity just to thank everyone for coming out to our weekly meeting. We'll have another one. Same time, same place next week. Thanks for those who join us and please keep the discussions going in the form. I'll leave the call open a little bit now after he got off the recording just for any final thoughts that we didn't get a chance to get to. But thanks everyone for joining us and I gave long I gave you the hosting car so apparently I can't qualify