Lifetime Audio Just don't seem to realize that it just because you passed some on trail doesn't mean that you noticed I Regular I don't know this all these people Well, it's fairly cold it's 43 degrees for a high that day it wasn't it Let's make a list of some things bec ause what we're talking about and [REDACTED] and we also that screenshot of the girls that were out there. It was in the comments the day they were looking. Yeah I was over that we passed them a city park. We were on the way to City Park, right. So we h eard that but that was all but the comment that they made was to each other was oh my god I can't believe that actually happened. Basically it makes it sound like something was talked about and then it happened. You know what I mean. I mean the girls that passed. At least that's something to look at, to examine. Even it was discussion within the kids that you know, or maybe they've always discussed. I'm confused today. Okay, so and that was, what were they talking about. Where and who was talking abou t. It was two girls, and they had passed [REDACTED] on their way to City Park, which would have been headed that way for Freedom Bridge. That's why I pointed that out too. It was very unclear that that actually happened. Actually it was [REDACTED] and [REDACTED] like I can't believe what it was there but where did you see them in the post? I said city park and then it was like but we weren't sitting there was something along the way I can't believe that I can't like they had they discussed a creeper bei ng around there something happened it was just kind of I don't know that's what struck me as odd. They came by way of 300, they didn't go through Delphi to get there. There's no way you go by city park. Well, she is just saying that that's like that. I think she's not really saying the girls were there. They have to have left the house earlier. No, what she's saying is the girls were commenting about what happened to [REDACTED]. - They were at the cit y park. - Well, I know where I was. - But remember what [REDACTED] said. - Okay. - They left the house at 11 o'clock. [REDACTED] said that at one time and [REDACTED] verified it. - They didn't leave the house at 11 o'clock. - Well, he did. - That's when 11 o'clock was when they asked to go for the first time. - That's what [REDACTED] said. But then [REDACTED] came out and said -- - Well, [REDACTED] also said later that -- - They never had their story straight until recently. - Well, [REDACTED] told me on the phone. - You're going straight now. - [REDACTED] told me on the phone, I said, "Wha t time did they leave the house? " Now, she can't be so definitive, but this is her. She said, "They left at 1:30." And I said, "Did they stop anywhere? No. I don't know how she knows except through [REDACTED]. And then I said, "What time did they ge t to the bridge? " 1:45. I mean, that was -- - Right, that's exactly what I was saying. - That was exact -- - I know they went back through with times and looked at phone records to get exact times. - Yeah, and then it came back to it. - But that was after [REDACTED], she only said that because she knew [REDACTED] had let the cat out of the bag that they didn't call until they got to the park. - Yeah, exactly. - But [REDACTED] also said they didn't leave the house until 11, or they lef t at 11. - I haven't even told [REDACTED] what the cause of death is actually, like, the legit, like is it gonna be considered you know, this, this, not even anything about a weapon, they've told her not even technically -- - We all know. - But being living long, she hasn't even been told. - [REDACTED] doesn't. - [REDACTED]’s throat was cut. - Was that after the fact though. Is that why she died? We don't know. - That's how she died. - But is that actually the reason? - [REDACTED] o r [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] was stabbed in the neck. - And then stabbed in the heart. - In the back, in the heart, the chest. And actually no medical student that was at the autopsy. And she won't really tell me much about it. But she said it was the worst thing that the pathologist had ever seen and he's like close to 70. It must be more than just his flip through. I was going to say something. So that's the motive. That's the mo tive. The injuries to the girl, the injuries that we think, that's the motive. I want to go out and I want to slit somebody's abdomen open. Abdomen, I thought you said her throat was slashed. - Yeah, it was. - And her actor and [REDACTED]'s, it's most alleged because [REDACTED] had talked to [REDACTED] and who was [REDACTED]'s boyfriend. [REDACTED] They were in a little group together and [REDACTED] and I got in a little tiff and he kind of, kind of a tiff. So she ends up calling me on the phone and then she's like, "You know what. I'm sorry I made a judgment about you. I was wrong. I didn't know, you know, and I'm, 'cause I was very, this was when the days I used to cry when my feelings would get hurt. ' Cause people are so mean, you know. Oh my God. So we started talking and I was telling her, you know, everybody knows I reached out to 20 psychics on this case. And I was reading some of the stuff that I had typed up of what [REDACTED] had said. She wa s, oh my God. She goes, yeah, [REDACTED], [REDACTED] said that her, like her bowels were like split open, like, and coming out. And that's exactly, [REDACTED]'s, [REDACTED]'s. And that's the exact same thing that my friend [REDACTED], who's, who's, who' s, who's, who's dating [REDACTED]. Yeah, that's the motive. So then it was just the throat slashing and then [REDACTED] was stuffed through the heart and the neck allegedly. Yeah. How would that be the worst thing anybody saw? No, listen to this. It was kind of like an arrow. With an arrow. That she'd had it with stuff. And it was described that they were instance hunting. But she did hear the stuff about [REDACTED]. Incapaci tated. That's that's that's all [REDACTED] made it very clear who found him. [REDACTED] yes, and you hear all kinds of bullshit I cannot hear everybody. [REDACTED] found the bodies. - Who, what was the truck that was left at the cemetery and nobody knew who it was for a while. - Just tell the story as you know it. - Months later. - Yeah, [REDACTED], can you just walk me through whatever you know about the while. - I'll tell you wh at I know. You just, where do you want me to start? From when I heard it. From what he -- - Yeah, from the beginning. - Yeah, and there's everything you know. It's not out there, everything that you've been, how you know it. >> Okay, so [REDACTED] found the bodies around noon, noon, 15 - ish somewhere in there. I used to hunt with [REDACTED]. He was a pretty good friend of mine. He's not the killer though, but they ran him through the system. I mean, they were at his house every day for two or three weeks questioning him over and over and over again. And his daughter, who is an acquaintance of mine, I saw her at Dairy Queen about four months ago and she said that they asked her several hours worth of questions as well, as well as his wife, I don't know the wife's name. - Hey, [REDACTED], can I ask you, who was really, was ISP the lead at this point or were the feds? - You know, that's a good question. I know that FBI did talk to [REDACTED], but I don't know who, I know it's law enforcement. I don't know when the FBI takes over. - Yes, we're hard to find, yeah. - ISP, I don't know where that occurs. I know the day it happened, well, the day after it happened, the day they found them, You know, I saw that they were still missing on the message of my buddies, like, you know, "The girls are still missing, this can' t be good. " And we all thought that they probably fell off the bridge or something. But then when they came out with the press conference saying they found two bodies, I'm like, "Holy shit, wow. " Really, it took the wind out of me. And I was on the p hone with my grandma, and I was like, "My God, this actually happened. " And I sent a text because they said that it was down from Freedom Bridge. I'm friends with [REDACTED]. I've known [REDACTED] my entire life and I've been a personal friend of his for about six years now and I've hunted that woods time and time again. I know that woods like the back of my hand so the way they describe it I thought, "Shit, that's either [REDACTED] or [REDACTED]. So I texted [REDACTED] and I said, hey, they found the gi rls dead down by the creek. He said, yeah, they're on my property. And I said, I'm sorry about all of this. He said, he thought, and I don't know why he thought this. He said that he thought they were there someone they knew probably to get them down t here and I I mean I knew [REDACTED] didn't do it it was a freaking joke the way they played him yeah that oh yes um what she told you what [REDACTED] told me, which is [REDACTED]'s daughter, said about six months after the murders that [REDACTED] came to t heir house, and he said, "I'd like to talk with [REDACTED] alone. " and [REDACTED] and her mom went inside the house and [REDACTED] had [REDACTED] describe in full detail everything he saw, what he saw, how the bodies were positioned, what they looked lik e, anything and everything that he possibly knew. [REDACTED] wanted to know it and he wanted to know everything. Makes sense. I have a question. Does anyone know had [REDACTED] already seen the girls when they were dead. Okay, I just want to make sure. With the exception of [REDACTED] and probably the coroner and the people that took the bodies out, I don't think anyone. No one was with [REDACTED]. No one was with [REDACTED]. I thought he was with like four hundred. He found the bodies by himself. He kicked up some deer and then he looked up and he was about 50 feet from the bodies. Was he uphill or downhill? Yeah, I don't know exactly. I'm pretty sure that he was. But I mean was he on the side between the cemetery and the creek. Oh yeah, yes. He was on that side. He was on [REDACTED]'s property. Okay, got it. He had a heart at the cemetery. He was maybe somewhere around here. Yeah, that's the other question. He didn't touch the body. So the crime scene is completely attacked. Well, that's a big question, isn't it. Because I don't think so. Why are you saying it is. Let it be. I have a theory that they were murdered on the edge of the creek, or the opposite side of the creek, and drugged across the left arm, which would get rid of blood, because there was no blood. And there was no meat, because not the creek. Yeah, I beg to differ be cause I've drugged plenty of deer. And 200 cheetahs. So, but it's not a doable thing. It's doable. I think what simply happened is that he fell down when he started across the creek, fell in his ass, just like [REDACTED] did doing that video a couple times. And as soon as he fell on his ass, the girl's booked, and then he took after him, and then they fell down too into the creek. Can we find out if -- I think it ended up in the creek mostly. Finish it up. Yeah. I'm sorry. I was just -- I think he definitely used the creek to his advantage, to watch your way up a den. Yeah. So you're saying -- But I don't think you planned that in advance. So -- Watch her. Down across the creek. Down the hill is here. I'm sorry. Why don't you draw it, [REDACTED]. No, here. It was never above my hips. Especially in water, you can drag a body easily on water. It's not that hard. They float. They float. It's not that hard to get up to the bank. And then he drugs it up. I think that's right too. And the bank, if you'll notice, I don't know. I see t he way there's a bank this tall and by the way it's almost flat. I know. You know the side though, it's real easy. You just walk right down the street. I'm always taken. I don't think it was a question of why. I think it was just a question of if you happen. I think the way it happened is they went down the hill and he took them across the creek. I don't know why. I just thought it was because he didn't want to go back across the bridge. When they got to the opposite bank, he realized he had two girls. He hit [REDACTED] in the back of the head and knocked her out. She regains consciousness. [REDACTED] takes off. He goes after her, cuts her throat. There's no DNA evidence. No one flaunted with their nail s. No one. She drops to the ground and bleeds out right there. He goes back and drags [REDACTED]'s body close to [REDACTED]'s. And [REDACTED]'s unconscious because she has a wound to the back of her head. [REDACTED] is. [REDACTED]. And she never wakes up again. and then he does whatever he does and leaves. - I figure the same scenario. They're going across the creek, he slip s, they start to run, he catches up to [REDACTED], gets in the back of the head of the gun, then chases down [REDACTED], or [REDACTED] comes back after he starts to [REDACTED]. - Cutting him from behind, she's trying to take him down. - But the thing is simple, that people never consider. You go to the south end of the bridge, you stand on the north end of the bridge, you look south, wow, there's a woods down there. Okay, girls are going across, you can see they're already down there, So you start, excu se me, [REDACTED]. - No, you're okay. If I may. - Sure. - When I was talking with [REDACTED], she said at the viewing they had at the high school that you could, I believe it was [REDACTED]'s arm, that you could see the hand print. - Yeah, the grabber. - The grabber, that there was a very visible, very forcef ul and obviously jerk. - Yeah. - They said he's gloves. - Well, then he said that too. - Yes. - Then he's gloves. - Oh, I just been saying that. - No doubt about it. - I don't even have to have it. - You don't even have to have it. - Yeah. - I believe he probably did, but think about it. You walk up to the girls, you said that then you grab [REDACTED] by the arm, you got a knife, let's go down the hill. - And also that. - I think he brought a gun home. that the [REDACTED] was in such a t errible condition that everybody that saw her, that it shouldn't have even been an open casket. They he'd like beat her to a pulp. - Yeah. - Worse. - Worse. - Way worse. - Bruis - wise and what shows up later. - He said that they tried to make, you know. - Make up. - Make up and everything. - But you couldn't make it up and live. - But like, my sister said there was no indication on [REDACTED], like her, 'cause she had like that white sun dress on at the high school. - You wouldn't see it until the back of her neck. - Right, exactly, yes. 'Cause she says, she was wearing this wh ite dress and she looked like, except for all the bruising, it could be -- - When I said, "[REDACTED]. " - [REDACTED]. [REDACTED] had a white dress on that showed her neck. - Like a sun dress. - Yeah, sun dress, a white, yeah. And she said, except for the bruising, she just looked like she was like laying there sleeping. - But except for bruising it. I mean the bruising, yeah obviously the bruising, but like there was no like -- - The throat wasn't cut visibly. - And then both of the girls had the dar k, like almost, you know, when people say, oh, we hurt fingers, we're cut off. It could be that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Well, and I talked, sorry, I talked with a bus driver because I went to the lantern thing. My mom, my mom's a bus driver, and her friend's also a bus driver. She said that [REDACTED]'s fingers looked wrong, like there was only half, half, half the fing ernail. - The corner, yeah. - Yes, that's, well, mine looked like half the fingernail right now. - Right, but as if they've been like -- - The corner may have taken a while. - Yeah, that's it. - So they pronounced everything and everything. - Oh, yeah , I never thought of that. - That's what she said. - That's what she said. - [REDACTED] talking to [REDACTED], was that the end of that? That's, yeah, that, that, that he just wanted to know everything that he saw and that that's, that's the extent of what I know about that. - I think that's a normal group of folks. - Yeah, to me that sounds like he's been shut out by law enforcement, he can't take it anymore, which is, I would say. - I agree. - I agree with that. - I agree, I do too. But, but [REDACTED] didn't want, [REDACTED] didn't really want to relive that an d he, he still, when it comes on TV, When it comes on TV, he still chokes up about it. - Oh, sir. - And he'll run in his room and start balling his head off. - That's terrible. - And he's got PTSD from him. - Yeah. - He's recovering. - No, you don't And yeah, it's just the whole, the whole thing. - So who was the next person to come to the scene. - I still have my thoughts. - But I, I, I, I don't know that. I know. I would have been considered this. Who did you call. So I -- He probably just yelled out. Well, no, I think that he called -- because they had the fire department look. And he said, hey, I found two bodies. I know [REDACTED] was close, and on the other side, you're right. Believe me, that. [REDACTED] did see -- no, I don't know how much he saw, but he was close. But what about -- A lot of people were fairly -- He made a phone call and seen them the same time. Yeah, you know, somebody else. The other. On the other side of the creek. Yes. I believe so, yes. And then the other -- There's something in the water, and then -- Nobody going to see those bodies from the other side of the creek. Well, the other question I find is so weird. -- in the creek. You are sure. Sure they could see clothi ng in the creek. Did you guys hear this thing that -- I think it was on one of [REDACTED]'s interviews where they yelled up and said, is this your sister's sneaker. Yeah. They did yell up and asked -- I read that. chewed chewed tides and clothing ties or whatever. - What were they wearing? Yeah. - 'Cause there was some, I'm sure there was some trash that was going to go out there so they're making sure. - Well, what I was thinking about, and again, this is all supposition is, they said that ultimately , and I don't, but what you're telling me is different. Some of these reports, and again, this is from afar, was that they saw foot, they saw tracks going from down the hill toward the creek, which initially tipped them off to the body. But you're saying that [REDACTED] came in through the cemetery and was on that side. - [REDACTED] came in through, I don't even know who used the cemetery. - [REDACTED]’s land. - But it was [REDACTED]’s property. - Right, so he was a gang member. - But I was just saying, we know he was parked through the cemetery, the truck was fun. He must have like not even went back to his truck and left. - At the back of the cemetery, there's a gate. - That gate, yeah. - There's immediately a trail. - Yeah, yeah. - It takes you right down to the crime scene. - So the access to it, the emotions, He had to almost certainly have gone down from the cemetery. Now, what he was wanting to do around as any less guest is, like you say, a deer kicked up and he saw him as a result. But what I heard is there are drag marks from the east side of the creek. The bank. Well, that's my point. That's what, that's what, the reason I asked him is this was told by her son, [REDACTED]. Yes. The day they were found. I got what he saw. - The book that was found, that's where he was wearing, is that he killed him here, grabbed him, a shoe came off. - Sure. - That one here, but they haven't found the body yet. So they're saying, is this your sister's shoe. - Right. - Very early on, very early on, I remember, and I cannot find the post to save my life, but there was a post on Facebook of shoes un der the bridge. - Oh yeah, I know it is. - I don't know if it is. - Yeah. - No. - 'Cause [REDACTED] says in the interview, That's when my heart sunk because that was my sister's shoe. And I remember thinking at the time, your idea, your sister off a shoe. So that just struck me as very odd. If they found shoes under the bridge and hold it up, and those were, you know, [REDACTED]'s shoes, then were they by the bridge and got drugged up the water and dumped over there. - No, I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think so. Well, it's probably like, okay, these two dead girls, we know it's probably having them behave it. What color she was, okay, yeah, it's them, you know, kind of thing. Again, for what it's worth, I just got around this last night when I sit somewhere around on the big justice site. [REDACTED] was in my little group for a long time. She was very willing to speak, but the problem was it just seemed like there was a lot of contradictions. And particularly about the timeline in this last minute thing, which I will, But the bottom line, this was troubling to me. And I confronted her a few times and she was not at all appreciative about that and did it in prime. But finally we came to the co nclusion that she should just leave the group. I didn't feel comfortable with her any longer. Other people were complaining. They couldn't say things they wanted to say. - She could be an admin of your group. - No, but I know she did with [REDACTED]. - And with our group, she asked, you know, with [REDACTED]. But to finish the thought, to finish the thought. - You agree she wanted to be an ad. - Yeah, oh yeah. But to finish the thought, so then -- - You're just saying you have big people problem. - We were kind of having this little chill. - You're protecting them. - And I'm kind of saying like, you know, but your information, [REDACTED], is all over the place and it's very troubling to me. And she goes, "Look, [REDACTED], I'm gonna share something with you. " And I said, "Okay, it's the only thing I can find "and I can post and send it to you. " She goes, "The law enforcement told me that bridge guy abducted him at the south end of the bridge. They went down the hill across the creek and they were found in the woods. " That's how the thing went. And she said that law enforcement has told us. - Yeah, I mean, I think that all seems to be true. The two different things that you guys saying also make great sense to me, which is what you were saying, [REDACTED], which is killed him on the opposite si de. Like you were saying, well, you said it hit [REDACTED] over the head. I think they died on the side of the creek. They were found. Right, that's what I'm saying. It is possible. It is possible. It just could have started. I think it started in the creek because it said over and over. I think he fell down. But they would have secured you've seen. You've all seen where they taped off. You've seen the 360 helicopter views. They're not taping o n the down the hillside without it. Right. It was the opposite. For sure. They searched that site that night. The night of the 12th. The 13th. The night of the 13th. No, that's why I got jumped down again last night. There was an old search. Down the creek search. Yeah. So, Dad, did you hear this. Did you hear this on the night of the 13th, when they were missing. [REDACTED]. And search. I remember that. It's a big area and the search was not concentrated there at all. If one individual was out there. And there'd still be body heat even if they just died. They must have completely avoided that error. that area. Now how do you know they were using these drinking drums. Where are you getting that information. This is the search. The search said they were using this to the spot because they thought they either ran away or if they were there. It's a great one. I t was on the dog's hand. The dogs never got there. That's the whole thing too. They called for dogs. They were found. The dogs. The dogs never arrived. They could have picked up the truck. But they had no interest in that. They seem to have no interest in that. I'm at 2 to 4 feet of water at that minimum. Yeah. You were on the street. The chance that you would intentionally try to take two people under your control through that water and not fall and slip seems incomprehensible to me. That they ran to try to get away. I think that seems to be more of an option. Why not? I've had thi ngs like that that I fell into and watered one time in about four feet of water and I literally fell like a leptin bottle. And I didn't recover from my old shoes. Literally my body temperature, it took me a while. I need to be able to go back. I couldn' t think about anything. My other question is this, which is, several rumors and again forgive my horrible sketch but I've heard several rumors that there were police markers. Yes, there were. There were absolutely. We saw it. We trapped exactly the path that he took from the crunching rock. Yeah, back up to the trail.