1 Original air Date Tuesday, 5 June 2001 This transcription is taken form the YouTube video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxCnp6KYWjo It does not include the phone calls and is only 1 hour 28 minutes Original show at Link to Coast to Coast AM Archives: https://www.coasttocoas tam.com/show/i - shot - bigfoot/ Texas Guys shoot and kill Bigfoot and bury the Bodies Art Bell interview, Robert W. Morgan and Buggs: Transcribed by who rt on 23 - 24 June 2021 2 A Few notes about the Transcription: First of all, Copyright Art Bell and Coast to Coast AM © 2005 Transcription by whorton, free of charge, not to be sold , but may be freely distributed. A few words about the transcription, First of all, this was an elaborate and time consuming job, it may be freely distributed, and is of fered for educational purposes . This is of a dynamic conversation that was featured on Art Bell’s famous, or infamous Coast to Coast AM show. AS such, the conversation is complex, but every effort to make sure to capture every nuance of the parties invol ved was used. One of the individuals, Buggs: was an anonymous call in guest, His speech was very much in the popular country vernacular. AT times, the speech may seem peculiar, however, It was the speech the character offered. The seminal question invo lved was if Buggs: really shot and killed two Sasquatches in the Texas panhandle in 1976, with two friends, identified as BIRDDOG and JIM. . they too are anonymous. There has been considerable speculation, as Buggs: never called in again, nor was he hea rd from again. There is a credible rumor around that Buggs: was actually , Radio personality Ed Hale. I can neither confirm or Deny this. Every nuance of his speech was captured in so much as possible. A second person, is Robert W. Morgan. A reputed Big foot expert, I will leave a consideration of his commentary and his veracity to you, the reader. Art Bell, is of course the moderator, he needs no introduction. Time signatures on the notations, may be off a second or two either way. Every effort wa s made to ensure that the conversations were accurately captured and transcript. Some of the time stamps bear the same time , this was because s ome of the guests, and particularly, Art Bell, had a habit of interrupting. That is what is happening with thes e same time stamps. Ellipses ( . . .) indicate a short pause. Sometimes the speaker was about to posit another thought, other times, It was a pause before another speaker took up the conversation. “Ahm, Ah”, and other such words, are frequently used by all parties. They are transcribed as best as possible. I realize they are annoying. You should try transcribing them! Some comments were unintelligible and are noted as such. Comments in parenthesis (COMMENT) Indicate non conversational nuances. Lau gher, Words which cannot be made out, etc. And there were comments that I could neither make heads or tails of. This transcription runs some 41 pages. As always, any mistakes are my responsibility. Enjoy this, but don’t count on finding the Sasquatchian bodies. I honestly suspect the story is a total fabrication. It seems Poor Mr. Morgan, was the recipient of a poorly conceived stage play. His comments seem most sincere. 3 00:00 ( Ominous Opening music ) 00:13 Art Bell: First of all, Ah, we’ve got ah, I’ve got a map to the burial location of two creatures. We’ll decide as the program wears on, what it is these creatures are. We’re gonna introduce two people to you right now, one is Robert W. Morgan 0:33 Art Bell: Ah Robert are you there? 0:34 Robert: listening with both ears 0:36 : Art Bell, Ah you are there, OK, ahm, let’s see, the first thing you wanted me to was to give our your phone number on the air, Right? 0:43 Robert: LAUGHS Yeah, just like I am g oing to give out your Home. . . 0:45 Art Bell: Laughs 0:48 : Robert: Ah - Ha - Ha, You Betcha! 0:51 : Art Bell: Ah, alright, and so your being kinda being in retreat right now, when you first Ah, you wrote to me you said , I’m kinda undercover with a pal, so, yo u’ve, you.ve been, nobody has found you in a while Robert 01:00 Robert: Yes, I’m ah, ah living somewhere in Montana, and as you know, it is a pretty large state 01:06 Art Bell: I know 01:08 Robert: And I am here on purpose, and ahhhm, its ah, carrying on s ome things and had some significant ah, successes with those ahs audio cassettes that I had mentioned to you at one time. 01:18 Art Bell Right 01:21 Robert: And ah, so far, sixteen people so far, by following that have had face to face, ah. .. 01:28 Art Be ll, MEETINGS? 01:30 Robert: Yeah 01:30 Art Bell: Encounters? 01:31: Robert: Yes 01:32 Art Bell: WITH BIGFOOT? 01:34 Robert . . . .and so, what I am trying here is since I found that ah, I needed an area where I wasn’t known and where people would ah not waste their time playing non - sense, and Ahm, starting from scratch, and at the same time, of course, I love Montana, I’ve been in and out of Montana for twenty some years and it’s absolutely fabulous. 01:55 Art Bell: Alright, ah , so your quest continues, and you’ve been researching Bigfoot for how long, Robert? 4 2:00 Robert: Well, ah, my first sighting was 1957, but I didn’t start serious Ahh, Ahm research until about, I think it was 1969. 2:12 Art Bell: And you have ah, did you write a book? 2:1 5 Robert: No, I ah did an audio cassette of, the book is incomplete, because I haven’t finished it yet, ahh, for obvious reasons. 2:21 Art Bell: Well, a lright, well, I may have another chapter for you here. 2:25 Robert: GOOD! I’m, I’m all ready 2:26 Art B ell, Alright, so You’ll be doing a lot of listening although you are welcome to ask a question as the ah, story unfolds. 02:33 Robert: Thank you 02:34 Art Bell Ah, It was , Ah, I don’t know how long ago. . . .BUGGS? You there? 02:36 Buggs: Yes, I am Art, Good morning. 02 : 38 Art Bell: Good Mornings Buggs DOGS BARKING IN BACKGROUND 02:38 Art Bell: Ahm, Can you ah, 02: 40 Buggs : . . . ( unintelligible ) 02:43 : Buggs: Ahy, there is my douggs. . . 02:45 Art Bell, That your dog huh? 02: 49 Art Bell, Buggs, you want to tell us w hat state are you in? 02:49 Buggs: Yeah, I’m in Texas , Art 02:50 Art Bell: Texas, Alright, Anm how long ago Buggs did you, can you tell me the story of originally what you did ? 02:58 Buggs: Gosh, Art, it’s been Three or Four years 0:30 0 Art Bell: Three of fours years yeah, I thought it had been quite a while PAUSE, Time flies 03:04 Buggs: Yeah, I’m getting older every day. 03:06 Art Bell: Aren’t we all? Alright Buggs, we’ve got a real e xpert here, you can hear, Robert W. Morgan 03:10 Buggs: Good morning ’ Robert 03:12 Robert: Good morning, Sir, how are you? 03:14 Buggs : I’m doing fine sir. And you ? 03:15 Robert: I’m alive and mean as cat dirt, I keep telling everyone I’m all right, so I guess we are alright. 5 03:22 : LAUGHTER. . . 03:23 Art Bell, Alright fine, Ah, Buggs if you would, begin at the beginning ah, and By the way, Buggs, before we even start, Why did you send me this map? 03:35 Buggs: Because Art, my days are limited on this earth, and when I’m gone, my wife is going to call you and say, “ go for it ” 03:43 Art Bell: Really? 03:44 Buggs: And you can reveal to the world a map, I have no t been back to that place since that day. 03:49 Art Bell, alright let’s start then with that day. Go ahead and tell it in as much detail as you want, Buggs, 03:56 Buggs: Art, Me and two of my friends, ah, which I will refer to as BIRDDOG and JIM were co at bobcat hunters, back In the ah, the middle 70’s, those varmints was worth a lot of money Ah. . . 04:10 Art Bell INTERJECTING: How, how much could you get for one? 04:13 Buggs: Well, an old bobcat would bring anywhere from three to seven hundred dollars. That pelt. 04:17 Art Bell, Yeah, that’s not bad 04:20 Buggs: And Cayotes, would bring like forty or fifty dollars apiece. And we would go out, to be honest with you , We, it was a little more than a hobby, we were real serious about it. . . 04:29 Art Bell: Right 04:30 Buggs: and we hunted, many , many nights all over this country 04:3 5 Art Bell: Were you making your living that way then? 04:37 Buggs: Ahy yes, I was farming at that time, I’d, I had gotten out of the marines and ah, came back home and, I was farming and then, that part of the year, that was cotton country up there, so w e ah, didn’t have much to do in Ah January and February except to kinda set around. . . 04:57 Art Bell: Mumm kay 04:59 Buggs: And ah, We hunted a lot in that period of time be cause you had to wait until the ah, freeze come for those pelts to cure or some reason, I don’t know, someone might explain it to me, But an animal m ore like a coon or a cayote or whatever, if you kill ‘em before it comes a hard freeze, when you skin ‘em their pelts are blue on the inside after they dry out, if you kill ‘em after a h ard freeze, there white. . . 05:25 Art Bell : Huh ? 05:28 Buggs: I have no earthly idea why that is. . . 05:29 Art Bell Does that sound right to you Robert? 05:32 Robert, Ah, yeah, eh, ah, I have seen that multi coloring, but I had no idea the reason, I didn ’t make that correlation, that’s interesting. . . 6 05:58 Art Bell: Ok. . . 05:40 Buggs: Ah, so anyway it was like in December, January, February, that we hunt ed to min n us mount , then in late February, it gets into what they call the ruttin’ season and the y (sic) animals would get mange and whatever and they wasn’t worth huntin’ So about two months you had prime time hunting, and me and these two guys we hunted a lot, we were all three from V iet Nam veterans and ah, very close, very close friends, and ah, w e had ah, one night we had gone. . .I, I don’t know how to tell this to keep from giving the location away but ah. . . 06:21 Art Bell Whatever words you want, it doesn’t matter. . . 06:23 Buggs: If someone knows what I am talking about, they can find out but anyway, We had hunted and we ah, back in the flatlands so then ah we took this road back up ah North of where I am at now, and it swong around and it ah, ran through ranch country, it ’s probably 25 or 30 miles, government ranch land. . . 06:45 Art Bell, So in other words this location is within what a hundred miles of where you are now? 06:50 Buggs: Oh, its closer than that. . . 06:52 Art Bell, Closer than that, alright 06:54 Buggs: Its ah, ah withing 30 miles of where I am at right now. 06:58 Art Bell: OK 06:59 Buggs: Anyway, w e, we came around and we crossed this ah, we were going to cross this ah creek it’s ah more than a creek, it’s ah, but it’s name is Elm Creek, and we were go ing to cross that , that creek, we come around back N orth and coming down that county road to this ranch land and that stuff, and these ranchers would let us, cause we would get rid of the cayotes that were taking their calves and this had to be for, probab ly four or five in the morin, I don’t remember the exact time, come around the ben d in this bottom ther e , just before you cross Elm Creek. . . 07:37 Art Bell: So, you’re huntin’ with lights then? 07:39 Buggs: Oh Yeah, we’re using spotlights off the top, t he roof of the pickup using ah, 500 watt ah, halogen bulbs, it would light up anything from, within half a mile ah, you, you can see where you’re stand ‘in See your ground good. . . 07:55 Art Bell: And, ah, ah anything with eyes lights up real well? 07:5 8 Buggs: Oh, t hem ol’ eyes. . .the thing about it is after you hunted as much as we did you could tell by look ’ in at a set of eyes what they were. . . 08:05 Art Bell: Mumhumm 08:07 Buggs: if they were a cow, they were wide apart and they were RED, If they were a cayote, ah, there were ah, narrow, and they were more blue - red. I mean it just after a period of time, Art, you just You just you, knew what look ’ in at scope and you knew what was there. . . 08:23 Art Bell I’m not a hunter so I just take your word for it. . . NERVOUS LAUGH. . . 7 08:24 Buggs: Well, It was, it was, it was just outta way But anyway, we come around this bend and it come up over this rise and it was a wheat f ield out in front of us , An - na, and, just before for we crossed this c reek it was this valley down there and I’d say it’s ah probably, its ah, I’d say its ah as wheat land right there, its probably a quarter mile or so wide, cause it, from that road it, t hrough the creek and it just probably a mile, about a mile long that runs along side that creek its flat and this and that and we come around this bend and up and over a little hill dropped into this valley. . . Well just as we dropped into this valley our , our lights hit, picked up a set of eyes and ah, I hit the brak e s, I was driving and BIRDDOG, he come out on the side, and he had a 300 Weatherby magnum and he come across the top and I said, “What you got” and he says “I don’t know, it ain’t something I ever seen before well, it just sat there and so I. . . 09:28 Art Bell: INTERRUPTING, when you said a set of eyes, did you mean two eyes or four? 09:33 Buggs: Two eyes, two eyes. 09:35 Robert: What color were they Buggs, if you don’t mind. . . 09:36 Buggs: They were 09:38 UNKNOWN SIGHS 09:38 Buggs: FURIOUS RED. . .The reddest eyes I have ever seen in my life. 09:42 Robert Really? 09:44 Buggs: under those lights, ah, they it was so mething we, It knew it wasn’t a deer because, ah, the eyes It was something 09:54 to time index 0957 LOSS OF AUDIO SIGNAL 09:58 Buggs: My scope on it and I could see what Whatever it was , was crouching And ah, So, BIRDDOG he got out and leaned over the h ood of the pickup where he could get him a good shot, and JIM, he come over the top of the cab he, he, I don’t even remember the rifle, what kind of a rifle he was using, I think he was using a .270, I don’t remember for sure but lined up over the c ab and I was sitting there and we just both had, we both had spot lights on this varmint there and ah, I said, ah, I don’t know what it is and they don’t either but it sure ain’t nothing we know about, Let’s take it. And all three of us fired at the same time, and all the sudden this thing got up, ( LAUGHS ) , And it must’a been seven, eight foot tall at least, I don’t know SCARED THE HECK OUTTA us, and started runnin ’ and well, we all loaded and we fired again, we knocked it down again and then it run, ah, I guess ah, ah it was probably a hundred and maybe a hundred and fifty yards from the point where we first the first time, till it hit that fence and went into that creek and ah we knocked it down, it was probably twenty five , thirty yards from the ah fence. . . 11:13 Art Bell ( INTERRUPTS ) It fell into a creek. 11:14 Buggs: No, not at this point, and just as it was crossing the creek, we hit it again. 11:19 Robert: Now was it, Excuse me, was it running on four legs or two? 11:21 Bugg s: It was running on two legs, just like a human being, And I mean, it just . . 8 11:26 Robert: Right so it was running on two legs . . . 11:29 Buggs: Right 11:30 Robert: something you’ ve never seen before, but you three guys cut down on it 11:33 Buggs: Well, we had done shot and we did not know what it was, it was hunched over, it was . . . 11:39 Robert: DEEP SIGH 11:40 Buggs: It was hunched over, it really wasn’t using its front legs, I mean its arms, as much as it was ah. . . it wasn’t standing up straight, we still thought what it was, what we thought it was at first to be honest with you, was a bear. 11:56 Robert: Yeah. . . 11:56 Buggs: And that’s why we fired. 11:59 Art Bell: S o, so you had three of you fired initially. 12:00 Buggs: Right, 12:01 Art Bell Right, so 12:03 Buggs: We fired three times. 12:04 Art Bell: so, you. . 12:05 Robert, You guys are all Nam vets, right? 12:06 Buggs: Right 12:06 Robert And, so, you’ve had. . . Night Combat, I’m sure 12:07 Buggs: Right 12:11 Robert: Ok,s o, you’ve had something getting up on two legs and running away and you still cut down on it, Ok, alright, but, ah, I have the picture, go ahead, please 12:20 Buggs: Ok, well, like I said, I originally thought it was a bear. 12:23 Robert: Mum humm 12:24 Buggs: I did not, I had no idea, but we had done fired on it, at the point in time that it was setting out there. . ( PAUSE ) . . . and ah, once, once we fired. . . ( PAUSE ) . . . I don’t know, I guess we just, got a little bit Gung ho! And kept shooting. . . but anyway, the second time we shot it, it went over the fence. . . . . Well, we went and looked and we, at this point in time we was all gett ’ in scared because we thought well, this wasn’t an animal. 12:58 Robert Alright 12:58 Buggs: So, Like I say, it was probably three, four, five in the morning so we decided to drive around a while about five thirty, six, we went back over there we drove back over there and we went 9 down it and we saw blood, so we seen some tracks, ah, looked like a human foot and ah to be honest with you, I thought we went out and shot a human. . . 13:24 Robert: Um Humm. . . . 13:24 Buggs: So, I’m getting’ scared, so we go on up and start foll owing these tracks and the creek runs oh, from this point, probably, fifty, seventy five yards east and then it turns back some, ( COUGHS ) , These tracks go down the creek and they come out and ah, . . .straight on East, ah from where the creek turned back S outh . . .About another oh twenty five, thirty yards, there was a ah, Plumb thicket and we were walking there and we heard something in that Plumb thicket, I mean it was ah, Growl type ah sound, we kinda looked at each other and decided who goes in to see what it was. . . 14:13 Art Bell: A growl 14:14 Buggs: And again, at this point we though it’s a bear, we done found a bear up here, so ah, I got elected, I had a .44 magnum pistol, I climbed into the Plumb thicket, and I got in, probably, Twenty feet at the most, and Art. Huh, This thing come up at me I mean, It couldn’t have been over, I would say six or seven feet from me, I didn’t even see it until it was there, and it raised up and let out a sound that ’ed just, it was very similar to the one you have on your tape and when it did. . . 14:57 Art Bell : You’re talking about ah, as he grabs for this one, I presume. . . (LOUD UNSETTLING ROAR W ITH ECHO ) that repeats and persists until 15:15) Anything like that? 15:15 Buggs: Yeah, its just like the first one, not a repeat, just ah. . . 15:19 Art Bell ( INTERRUPTS ) Yeah, that first scream is ah said to be an ah authentic Bigfoot sound, Robert? 15:26 : Ro bert: (STOI CALLY) Yeah, that is what they say , I, I have never heard them scream like that, I ’ ve heard them ah howl, I’ve heard them hoot and I have heard them talk, but I’ve never heard. . . 15:35 Art Bell: You’ve never heard them scream like that? 15:36 Robert, No. . . 15:38 Robert: Well, f irst of all, I’ve never ah challenged them, they don’t ah perceive me as a threat of any sort, so they wouldn’t try to . . . 15:45 Art Bell: Understood, so anyway Buggs: , it sounded something like that? 15:50 Buggs: Something similar to that first part, it didn’t go on and on, it was just one shriek like that, and I’m basically on all fours in a crawl position and I just brought my forty four up, and I started poppin shells and the first one, I, I hit it ah, the firs t one hit it, I was aiming right at the chest, I. . . 16:10 Art Bell: Describe, since you are seeing this full on, what did it look like? 16:15 Buggs: (DEEP SIGH) Ahmm. . 16:17 Art Bell: Best you can 16:19 Buggs: At that point 10 16:20 Art Bell: Six feet tall. . 16:21 Buggs: Probably, but it was not standing up, Art, at that point, it was more in a hunched, squat type position, 16:2 8 : Art Bell: Alright 1629 : Buggs: I mean, It come up. . . 16:30 Art Bell: Would you describe this as human looking, as, as Ape looking, did it have hair covering it, what can you tell us about it? 16:37 : Buggs: It had Bredish roun ( sic ) , red, Brownish, red hair ah. . .it had hair on the face, ah, completely covered in the face, ah, the, It’s , it’s whole body was, it was covered with hair, at that point, I just fired ah, it dropped down, started back up, I fired again and it, it then kinda rocked, went backwards and it come back up, and I fired again. I hit it th r ee times w ith a two hun. . two hundred twenty five grain .44 magnum hollow point At probably Six to eight feet. . 17:23 Robert: Ummph 17:24 Buggs: And it was down , well, the other guys were standing guard, up on top watching and they couldn’t see nothing, they hea rd me firing, and they yelled, if I was alright, “ Yeah, I got it ” Well, They came, they came crawling in there, ‘n’ where I was at and they seen it, so we decided we’d drag it out We got to lookin’ and all this thing had was three holes, and , this was a fe male, you could tell, it had breasts similar to a, to ah woman, it had a sexual organ similar to a woman. . . .facial features were different, than a human being I don’t say it was completely covered in hair. We went back in and found a male, probably I’d say eight ten feet behind where she was at, he was dead. . . 18:17 Art Bell: “ He was dead ” 18:17 Buggs: Yeah, so we drug him out, we laid him outside beside, I , the male was probably six to eight inches taller than the female estimating the male to be e ight foot plus, the female, ah seven plus ( COUGHS ) , so we looked at ‘em , we got scared, because, It was like I . . .and the male Sexual organs like a human Ah, we looked at their teeth, there were NOT HUMAN type teeth. I can’t say there were an ape, I can’t say there were a Human. They, they looked, they had the features o f a human overall, but ah, the details were not. . . 19:10 ( OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYS ) . . .Goes to break. . 19:17 Art Bell: Alright once again ah, ub, I want to cover this, I am getting a lot of judgmental stuff, Ah, saying stuff like “ You killed it after you k new it was a bear ” or “ though it was a bear , ” or or, “ Did it ever occur to them that maybe he shouldn’t shoot it ” or, “ please, run the other way ” , or “My God, out shooting animals,” ahh, ah, a lot of judgmental stuff but, if I were to be judgmental we woul dn’t get the story, what I really want is the truth here, so I’m not going to sit in judgment of ah, of Buggs there are a lot of people that are responding that way Buggs, ( Brief audio disruption ) But I am the truth, I want the truth and if that is what you are doing then that is what you are doing and so, I just want the truth so you are telling us the truth right? 20:01 Buggs: That is correct Art, I wouldn’t ah sent you a map otherwise. 11 20:06 Art Bell: No, I believe you, I believed you the first time , and I believe you now, ah, there are a lot of people who don’t like it, but this is a very important story in view of the probably physical evidence that still exists. Ah. . . 20:18 Buggs: You got to remember something, at that point in time, we were o ur living bas ically huntin’ There was many a night I went out and made a thousand dollars in a night. 20:31 Art Bell: Really? 20:32 Buggs: I mean, there was, there was one night, my biggest night ever we killed three bobcats, seven cayotes, eighteen co ons and we had twenty four hundred dollars the next day. 20:45 Art Bell: I’ve got yah . . .So again, ah, I’m not judging you here, I’m, I, Ah, Somebody else would like to know, they’ve got to find your old listening And they really want to know what this, these creatures looked like, now you said not exactly human, not exactly total animal, like something in between, is there some way you can describe the facial features of ah, ah these creatures that should be imprinted on your memory. . . 21:12 Buggs: Yeah, Art, Huh, No, because I never seen nothing on this earth that looks like ‘em. I, I, I, they, their heads, they have a nose, similar to a human. 21:29 Ok 21:29 Buggs: Their mouths, ah, appear to be more ape, ah, their eyes are sunken back i n their head more than human, I mean, I think if you take a human and cross it with a ape, you could probably come up with a reasonable facsimile of it. 21:55 Art Bell: Ok 21:55 Robert, you know what I might suggest Art, if you don’t mind. 21:57 Art Bell : sure 21:27 Robert: Ahm, ahm, Buggs: after we go off the air, if you would give Art your mailing address, which I. . . 22:05 Buggs: Which I 22:06 Art Bell: I have it 22:07 Buggs: . . . He has everything, my mailing address, my p hone numbers, he has eve rything. 22:09 Robert: Ok what I would like to do is. . . 22:10 Art Bell: Robert, Robert, I let me just interrupt, I promise him anonymity and, and will explain why her ah, shortly. 22:18 Robert: Oh No, No, No, what I mean is I do is send a copy to you Art, and have you forward it to, ah Buggs , the idea is this, on the cover of that is one of the best artist’s rendering of that I’ve ever seen, because, I sat with the artist myself . . . 22:36 Art Bell: On the cover of what? 12 22:29 Robert: on the cover of ah ( LOTS OF NOISE, voice dips ) . . .Stuff that I have 22:40 Art Bell, oh a gazette, oh of the cover of your cassette, Ok 22:43 Robert: And that way, and what I would like to do is get a reaction from Buggs when and he can tell that to you. That is number one, Number two, can I ask you something Buggs ah, what kind of soil, were these two buried in? 22:58 Robert, Ah, was it sandy, was it ah, di. . . 23:02 Buggs: In this part of the country, it is Sandy Loam, and it was ah, it wasn’t ah silt - sand but it was sandy loam in that particular place where we buried ‘em, it was more of a, Ah gravel type ah, of sand, because it was the ah, it did have some ro ck in it, because it that creek was probably at the point where we buried it there in the creek, kinda went S outh oh about probably about a hundred and fifty , probably two hundred, fifty yards and then it turned back east and over a period of time when we had a lot of high rains in this part of the country, it would wash silt and such in there 2 3 :40 Art Bell: How fa. . . 2 3 :42 Robert, are you saying that the ah, the creek would overflow into this specific area? 2 3 :47 Buggs: Yes, 2 3 :48 Robert: Oh boy, cause that’ll cause a different type of decomposition, did you take a GPS reading? 2 3 :56 Buggs: Ah what? 2 3 :57 Art Bell: Probably not, Robert, I would say, probably not, a GPS. 2 4 :01 Buggs: Ah, huh eh, No, I don’t have one of them animals. . 2 4 :03 Art Bell: Laughs Ah Yeah. .. 2 4 :05 Robert: Ok, if we supplied one, would you get, take the readings and send those to ah, ah , Art 2 4 :09 Art Bell: Ah, well, he has gi ven me an extremely specific map Very , very , specific 2 4:14 Buggs: I mean that map is detailed down. . to 24:15 Art Bell: Yeah 24:16 Buggs: the ah foot, I 24:19 Art Bell: You would know where to dig . . .Ah listen. . . 24:19 Buggs: To be honest wit h you, this happened very , close to thirty years ago and I have not been out there since. 24:26 Art Bell: Buggs: ahm, when you have these things laying on the ground what did you guys talk about and why did you decide to bury them? 24:33 Buggs: We thou ght they could be human, Art. . . (LAUGHS) and we didn’t want to go to jail. 13 24:44 Art Bell: Ahm, but what you just described i, it is. . . yeah, I understand , in other words were sitting there 24:44 “Buggs: (OVER ART BELL) You’re sitting there, and you are looking at the sexual organs of two animals that’s got are identical to human beings, what do you think? 24:59 Art Bell: Ahm Robert, you ah, wh - with what you know about Bigfoot, ahm, do they have sexual organs? Ah, ah er - A the report you get , do they have sexual organs similar to humans? 25:10 Robert: Oh yes, so far, everything that Buggs: has mentioned is ah, ah something that I have observed myself, so ah yes 25:20 Art Bell: Oh. . . 25:20 Robert: he’s right on the nose, er - a 25:23 Buggs: Thank you Robert, I appreciate that fact 25:25 Art Bell: Have you ever seen ah, Buggs, any of the Bigfoot photos, like the Patterson film , any of those? 25:32 Buggs: Oh no (TALKING OVER ART) no, I haven’t. . .opt, no. . 25:35 Art Bell: would somebody please send me a good ah, Bigfoot photograph, right away 25:40 Buggs: I’m on the computer, I can, can ah look at it 25:45 Robert: Well, it’s too bad our web s ite isn’t up, we have all of them on there. . 25:47 Art Bell: Oh, you do? 25:48 Robert : Yes, a nd unfortunately, it’s under reconstruction right at the moment. 25:50 Art Bell: Well, somebody will send us a photograph, depend on it. In the next ah 15 minute s or so, we’ll try and get it up for the next hour. 26:00 Buggs: I, I will give a little more detail if(sic) the location of this tends to tease the people out there, ah the 26:07 Art Bell: ah. . 26:09 Ah the Biggest River in the State of Texas that ah I guess you might say is the Red River. This Elm Creek is a branch off of the Red River, of the state of Texas. 26:25 Art bell: K. . Ahmm. . . That is the only sound, actually , you only heard, heard that scream that sound, but other than that, you heard a growling as you would describe it. . . 26:37 Buggs: I don’t know whether it was a growling or a rustling, but something got our attention in those bushes 26:46 Art Bell: Now when they move, you said they moved on two feet, ah or seemed to walk on two feet hunched over, or straight up? 14 26:51 Buggs: It was hunched over, eh, it, to be honest with you, it looked like a bear, when it was running away from us, it lo oked like a bear, I’m think ’ in dollar signs, that is why I fired. 27:05 Robert: It was probably pretty badly injured, ah, by your first ah fusillade, and ah, what he was doing, I think is Number one, escaping, Number two, he was going to the protection of the ah, hopefully of his ah, mate, and ah, the mate may have picked him up and carried him to where you caught him. 27:26 Art Bell: FINE! 27:26 Buggs: I don’t know that that happed cause there was ah, grass, ah, ah where he came out of that creek and ah , headed ah East there. 27:37 Robert: (MEEKLY) Um - hum. . . 27:38 Art Bell: Maurice in Modesto California asks ah, if you’re hunting for money, why didn’t you decide to bring these , creatures back , for a hell of a profit, they would be worth a fortune 27: 48 Unknown subtle laughter 27:50 Buggs: Yeah, and maybe go to jail for it or your live too. 27:51 Art Bell: Yeah. . . 27:52 Robert: Yeah, I think the fellow in Modesto was overlooking the fact that if these are humanoid then ah, under the American Const itution, they have civil rights and ah, Buggs is indeed correct, he could be charged with manslaughter at least. . . 28:06 Art Bell: You know what, by the time you , we did the original show, by the time we finished the original show, Buggs was actually go ing to invite me out there. . . 28:12 Robert: Um - HUM. . . 28:15 Art Bell: . . and we were going to dig these bodies up, 28:17 Robert: Good 28:17 Art Bell : Cause this was years ago. . . 28:17 Buggs: I said I’d show you, Art, But, I ain’t digging ‘em up. Hey, let me tell you something, I own a farm near this place. . . 28:25 Art Bell: Yes sir 28:26 Buggs: And I won’t go out there at night because about, oh, Year or so ago, I was out there late one evening with my dogs, they loved to go out and swim in the creek, and I heard that sound, and Art, I know they still aren ’ t still out there, and to be h onest with ya, I think they are looking for me. 28:43 Robert: Well, I’ll tell you what Buggs, we could do something, what oh, ah, this is something, this is just a proposition here, if you would ahm, ah, show Art where it is and ah, Ya know if, I could be somehow involved, I would take the heat for you, and I think I could get you off the hook if. . . 29:01 Art Bell: I’m not sure you could take the heat, In fact, Larry in Anchorage asks, “ is it even feasible to believe these bodies are still there? ” 15 29:11 UNKNOWN COUGH 29:11 Robert: It ’ s pretty rough in that kind of ah - Ahm kind of ah, sandy, sandy loam, because if you have a lot of water running through there, it is going to decompose rather rapidly and ah, this would also ah, the escaping gases would cal l in Cayotes and ah those ske. . . 29:30 Buggs: Well, now, we buried ‘em probably, they had to be at least four or five foot deep, Robert 29:35 Robert: Oh Really? 29:36 Buggs: and hey, let me tell you something, like I train, we were all Viet Nam Vets , we all know how to cover our tracks. 29:43 Robert: (LAUGHTER) 29:43 Buggs: We walked away from there (ABRUPT SHORT LOSS OF SIGNAL) 29:45 Robert: . . .Cause the idea is since the ah, I, A, Art, you know my feeling about hunting and using guns on Big foot, However, ah if the deed is done, there is nothing we can do, but we wouldn’t want them to die in vain, and if they can prove ah, Buggs, listen to me please, If we can prove they exist, by virtue of two skeletons, then in effect you are protecting the rest of them, because I am very confident they are going to come out as humanoid , ah, so an act on your part at this time would indeed help protect The rest of them. 30:30 Art Bell: Buggs, what about the , your two friends, what has their attitude been sin ce? 30:35 Buggs: You know, something, we haven’t talked in probably, I guess, ten or fifteen years, Ah, they both moved away from here, I think they both had the same kinda feeling that I did, it was time ta pack up and go. . 30:48 Art Bell: That you might ’ a killed something, that was human or something 30:52 Buggs, I mean, it wasn’t something that it bothered us that we had killed humans, cause we had done that before, You know, I mean to take out a person, that was no big deal to us. . 31:03 Robert: But that was in War, and they were 31:04 Buggs: That’s right 31:04 Robert: and they were armed. . . 31:05 Buggs, that is right, That is right 31:05 Robert: a totally different thing. . . 31:05 Buggs: Totally different situation what w e were in there today, at that time 31:13 Robert: Yeah, you were doing your duty, Pal. 31:16 Buggs: And I understand that, You know, when we got into this situation, I would not have shot the female onced ( SIC ) I got, saw her, except I feared for my life 31:26 Robert: Oh you had the right to theirs , if it would have attacked you 16 31:30 Art Bell: Buggs, what about Smell, did you smell anything, do these creatures smell? 31:34 Buggs: Art, I can’t remember, I really can’t remember that Ah, I 31:44 A rt Bell: W ell, if it had been really distinct, I’m sure you would have. 31:47 Buggs : Yeah, it was probably ah, it I, I try to back a lot of this out of my memory and it’s tough trying to draw it back up. Because I knew what I had done, I realized what we had done, and I realized there might be consequences and the only reason I was able to send you this map, cause for three years, I have never had one phone call, You knew how I was, you knew where I was, You knew my phone number and everything, yet No body ev er got it, So I trust you. . . 32:23 Art Bell: and you can trust me, although I am not sure I’m happy I have the map. If you dug the hole four to five foot deep, shot them at four in the morning, drove around, shot more, they would have been digging and burying in the day light, correct? 32:36 Buggs: Right This was ah, it, the sun came up around six O’clock , six thirty It was day, but the sun wasn’t up daylight enough for us to see, and the, when we found them, we are probably talking about the sun was just ready to peak over the top of the hill, ah, we’re talking probably six thirty, six forty five, maybe seven O’clock , and after we found ‘em and drug ‘em out and every thing, we’re probably talking eight O’clock , and it don’t take very long to dig when you are scared, and probably withing an hour we had dug a hole and put ‘em back, and we’d left. 33:17 Art Bell, Did you bury them in one hole or separate holes? 33:20 Buggs: One 33:21: Buggs: One hole 33:22 Buggs, On top of each other 33:25 Art Bell: Yeah, that would make sense, Ahm, after this was over and they were buried, did the three of you talk 33:32 Buggs: Yep 33:33 Art Bell: and what did you talk about? 33:34 Buggs, and we swore to ourselves secrecy, Art 33:39 Art Bell: You swore each other to secrecy? 33:42 : Buggs: yeaht. . 33:44 : Art Bell, Ahm, and 33:44 Buggs: Never to reveal it to anybody 33:46 Art Bell: Except for ah, years later, many years later, you went on the radio with me and you told this story 33:52 Art Bell: And now, you’re telling it again 17 33:52 Buggs: Well, when you get to be old, and you start to thinking ( sic ) about some things you did in yo ur life that I need to make some corrections about 34:00 Art Bell: That you weren’t that happy about 34: 03 Buggs, Naught, That I did in my life that I’m still scarred about today Art. . 34:11 Art Bell: You feel guilty about it? 34:11 Buggs, Oh, yeah, tr emendous amount of guilt, because, I don’t know, I might ‘a taken an innocent human being’s life, ah 34:19 Art Bell, you know, maybe, maybe for a hunter, it not the same way Buggs , but when you look into a human ’ s eye you can see ah, an intelligence, I mea n you know your dealing with an intelligent creature. I don’t know if you had enough eye contact before or ahm, or, it happened all too fast, in all probability but I wonder if you had a chance to look into their eyes, and whether you discerned anything f rom that you were dealing with an intelligence or something that was about to kill you 34:51 Buggs: No Art, I couldn’t tell you to be honest with you, it was just a quick knee jerk reaction, and it was ah, ah fire, because I knew that I was in danger, and I knew she was fixing to come after me. I knew it was a matter of a millisecond, I either had to fire, or I was gone, and I didn’t hesitate. 35:13 Art Bell, Yeah, obviously ahm , with the other one dead, I would think that that creature would, have killed you pretty quick, if it could have. 35:24 Buggs, Oh Art, it could have 35:24 : Robert: Yes, it would have. . . 35:25 Buggs: Believe you me, it could have, as big as this thing wa s, Art, I’m Six foot one. . . 35:28 Art Bell: There’s a lot of People, Buggs, there is a lot of people that think bigfoot could have, is some sort of paranormal creature, but it sounds to me like the creatures were real dead, ah, you know, like mammals, an imals, and humans, who get shot are dead, ah, nothing paranormal about that 35:40 Buggs, Yeah 35:40 Art Bell (TALKING OVER BUGGS) They never disappeared on you 35:50 Buggs: no. .nope, 35:51 Art Bell (CONTINUES TALKING OVER BUGGS) Nothing ever strained about tha. . . 35:54 Art Bell: What about. . .Blood? 35:55 : Buggs: Red blood, just like ours 3 5:58 Art Bell: A lot of it? 36:00 Buggs: Ah, quite a bit, Quite a bit especially hers, I me an his, he had a big pool where he was hit. And near the heart are a , I would assume . . .Ah, I would imagine his, he had a pool of blood, I am trying to remember now, but I would say it was probably was ( sic ) where he was laying, and he was probably a foot and a half circle in diameter 18 36:34 Art Bell: And so, everybody swore everybody else to secrecy, ah forever . . 36:38 Bugg s : Right 36:39 Art Bell: . . .on this matter. . 36:45 Art Bell: Ah, Robert, If it happened that long ago, I am assuming that the, thub, the remains have not been washed away. What might we expect to find if, anything? 36:56 Robert: Ah, ah, you could find probably ah quite a bit of the skeleton ah, you could ah, most importantly for us, it would be finding the teeth, because within t he teeth, tha, ah, even after many years, you can find ah, viable DNA 37:15 Art Bell: DNA? 37:19 Robert: ye s. 37:19 : Art Bell: Alright, well I have heard, that they have found hair recently, and they do a DNA test on it, and it comes as hominoid of some sort, unidentifiable, so what do we get from that? I know , in other words, it you have a hair sample, an, and they say , “Yes, it was some sort of mammal or “ hom - i - nod, ” in some way but it was, it’s not identifiable, so that’s the end of the story.” 37:43 Robert: Right, we had that happen to us and we had that in 1974 and we had that also in 1972 A hair tells you, ah, qui te a bit about