TAPE No.1/ a Mrs FERRAIOLI 16th JUNE 1992 ✓ TAPE No.1/b Mrs J. McLAREN 30th JUNE 1992 TAPE No.2/a TAPE No.2/b TAPE No. 3/a TAPE No. 3/b TAPE No. 4/ a TAPE No. 4/b TAPE No. 5/a TAPE No. 5/b 9 \\�.-��5� �o� Mrs Mary BRYSON 161hJUNE1992 ✓ \'.) [ - \'5 and Mrs Nan DENT Mr. David BOYLE Miss Betty ROY Miss Betty ROY Mrs BRAID Mrs BRAID Mr. James M. ROY Mr. James M. ROY Pt-P\l 13th OCTOBER1992 ✓ 10th NOVEMBER1992 8th FEBRUARY1993 j 8th M ARCH1993 CUMBEQNAU�� 0 ���ICAL ro�r ? i }r,z James M.Roy �.f\'\B \ Recorded 8/3/93 Interviewers - Mrs T.Smith (I), Mr J.Smith (I2) 7) Subjects - James M.Roy (S), Unnamed lady (S2). (D.e.,� \�olj • I Could you tell me your name please? S James Miller(Millar?) Roy. I James Miller. And when were you born, Mr.Miller, if you don't mind me asking you? S Roy. I Roy. Sorry, Mr.Roy s The 3rd of January, 1918. I 1918. So, what we're really looking for is for you to try to remember what your childhood was like, first of all in Cumbernauld, and what you can remember about your parents and grandparents. S Well, I was born here. I In this house? S �No. �In-a-house------at-tl'le bottom of�the Main St_re_e_t. it was called Springwell House. The joiner's shop was adjacent to it, where my grandfather had his business. Then shortly after that my parents and I moved to Lenzie. We were there for a while and then they built this house - 1925 when it was occupied. I was seven then. Transferred from Lenzie School to Cumbernauld Primary. I Was that the Lenzie School that still exists today? S Yes - different building. I Yes, different building but the same school. Do you remember anything about your primary school days at all? S (laughs) Remember everything about them. I Do you remember the teachers that you had? S The first teacher I had was Miss Klein (spelling?). Had her I think for a year or so, can't remember about that. Then••••you had a teacher who took you up to what we called "the Qualifying" - eleven plus. Good teachers they were. I And did they live in the village? S Some did. My aunt was a teacher - Miss R-e-e¥e-S-R�t}> -(-s.� I We've heard about Miss Reeves fZf,-D S There was a Miss White who lived down here. I And what was the atmosphere like in the school? s Excellent I Were they very strict? S Taught us strict. They were fair. I And did your father start his business back in Cumbernauld at that time? Or when you moved to Lenzie did the business change? r S Well my grandfather had the joiner's business here you see. My father worked in the Royal Bank of Scotland. He was the Accountant here, then he got married. Then they moved the Accountant to a branch in Glasgow, that's why we moved to Lenzie. But he always had a hankering to come back to Cumbernauld, and this house was built, my grandfather built it, and back we came. The schooling was really excellent, the teachers were good. I And then, from then you went to which school? ( , 2 'Tup-e-5 p 2 CUMBEQNAULD HI&0QICAL &JCIETY S At that time the Cumbernauld School took you up to third year, fourteen. So after that you go back to Lenzie. At that time Cumbernauld was in Eastern Dumbartonshire, that meant that was the school you had to go to, o to Castlecary to get the train to Lenzie and back. I They didn't run a school bus in those days? S No, they didn't. It was tuppence to go in the ordinary bus to Castlecary. Tuppence in old money - a penny if the conductress was of good mind.(laughs) Quite often there was four or five of us and we would walk to Castlecary - mile and a half, and save the money for a pokey-hat at lunchtime. I And what were the arrangements at lunchtime at school in those days? s Well in those days they didn't have meals. They had a certain meal. One lady would have a hot pie, mashed potato and some mince on top of it. That was fourpence, it was a bit above the means •••• I And that was provided by the school? S By the school, yes. You had to pay for it. I And tnat wa-s-unu-sua-1 tn-----those days. s They would come round and ask you if you wanted anything - in the morning. I And how long did you stay there? s Two years. I Till you were? s Sixteen. I So you left school at sixteen? S Left school at sixteen, started working in the Royal Bank here in Cumbernauld. I Here in Cumbernauld, and did you stay there very long? , 1 S Till the War. I was called up, December '39. ( cl'a .? ci 2 l I And what did you do with yourself outside working hours? What entertainments were there or what activities did you take part in? S Films, pictures, movies. I That was the one at the corner? S Ponti• s (l,) US We've never found out why she was called Ponti. S Jimmy Ponti he was called. Andrew his name was, James Andrew. He came from Glasgow, so you could expect anything (laughter) I And that was your main •••did you play any sports at all? S Well yes, I was the sports champion, two years running. I was always interested in running and jumping, and football was the main thing, played it morning, noon and night. US Were you not in a band? s Yes, I was in a band, dance band. Dancing was a great pastime. I'm talking about 1934. There was dancing often here, every Tuesday in Peebles'(?) Hall. And then there were dances for the bowling club and those sorts of things. I And what instrument did you play? S I was on drums. Well I mean I was talking there about going to dances. Then we started up the band, there were five of us. I And I understand there was an athletic club in Cumbernauld? ,,I 3 'Oc� '5 p \3 CUMBEQNAULD HI&oRICAL 80CIETY S Yes. That's all before my time, it was in the Masonic Hall. I didn't attend that, I don't know what they did - physical jerks I suppose. I I was surprised to hear that because when we came to live in Scotland it struck us both that athletics was very much a cinderella sport, compared to what it is down south. So football was your main interest, and was there a team in cumbernauld? S There was a Cumbernauld Thistle. I played in the school team, and I was just playing for the fun of it. I You weren't actually in a team, like a Cumbernauld team. And what was the atmosphere in Cumbernauld like? S Super. There was a Scout Hall, and there was dancing there Saturday evenings to a gramophone. There was always something going on. There were two picture houses, Ponti's and the other one in Peebles' Hall. I Peebles' Hall, now we've heard about that. Where was that Betty? B That was in the Wynd behind the •••almost where the car park is now, just about there behind those houses. s- It was Marjo�-}e-,-when I started-�here. It was-very frustrating sometimes. It was only worked with an engine, bolted into the ground in this little place and they couldn't start the thing. You were all queuing up outside. It went on for ten minutes and then they were finished and someone else had a go. With your penny in your hand waiting to get in but it wouldn't start. Then they would shout, "Get Hughie Peebles." He had a taxi sort of thing, don't think he had a bus, but he ferried you to the station. He was supposed to be a sort of mechanical genius. And Hughie would come in and say, "What's wrong?" and the dashed thing started. And then we all trooped in and a man played the piano. I From all we've gathered so far Cumbernauld was a very good place to live, and everyone seems to have been very happy and friendly with each other. S Yes. There was no trouble. I But the main thing we've discovered is that it was when the New Town came that things changed. You won't know much about that though? S Well I came back here after the War, for a while, up to about 1956/7. The New Town hadn't made its impact. There wasn't very much going on. I2 Were you in the Scouts? S No. I What did you feel about it when the New Town was•••• s I didn't fancy it one little bit. It obviously changed the whole atmosphere of the place, it was a little village on its own, a pleasant village. I And wev•e heard that the people in the big house were very good as well. S You could walk through their grounds without any trouble at all. You would meet Captain Bl(_rnfs (k(), who was a Bi...<.rn/4'. very nice man, he would say hello. You had complete access to walk through the grounds. He usually knew who you were. I2 Someone was telling us about the tennis courts there and - how the people from the Village used to go and play tennis up there and everything was provided - the racquets 4 CUMBERNAULD lll&ORICAL and everything. I was in Cumbernauld House last week and I was talking to one of the planners,and he produced some copies of a photograph album which they found in the House and it showed the tennis courts on there. S2 We've got photographs of that. Mrs Bryce(?) used to go up and photograph some things. s I've got photographs of that. It was mostly girls who were invited up. I Yes. It was Mrs Bray who was telling us that. But she was ••• s Flora Wilson - I knew her mother better - Lizzie(?) Wilson - Flora was her daughter. She was into my class at school. I And Betty was telling us about - was it your grandfather that was on the local •• �n.\Z..\')tt Cov\... i--.f c.1 I B Someone was showing tliem the picture of the first parish council, that he was on. S He was a fantastic character. I Do you remember him? S Very well. ------ ----1---He w-a-s-�he-�en-'b----1 ema--n-w-i-M1-�he----1-o-i-ne-.I'-y-bus-i-nes-s--'?--A-nd-- -- what sorts of things did he do in that joinery business? S Well, practically anything. I mean in these days he was what you call a joiner and cartwright - made wheels, a tricky business. He made the spokes for the wheels, shaved them with a spokeshave by hand. And then he would take them round to the blacksmith's shop and he would fit the iron tyres. S2 The blacksmith's shop would be more or less just where that block is. I2 And was your grandfather also the undertaker? S Yes, he was. I2 That was the usual thing. S He had many a story to tell about that.(laughter) I Isn't it a pity that we haven't got their memories. S2 Yes it is. s If he were here, he could really tell things about Cumbernauld. He had a fantastic memory and a great way of telling stories. I I suppose the things he made ••• were the local farmers customers? S A lot of that, the local farmers, carts and so on, but he built houses, drew plans and he could draw plans, I suppose he was self taught to a great extent. S2 He would take the sort of contract for a house building and engage a plumber or a builder and so on. I And where was he educated, do you••• S2 At the school in Cumbernauld. S Up to about the age of eleven. S2 He used to tell a story about - the school was on the Roadside at that time, down where the Springhead Terrace is, and he would go with a penny in his hand, that was the fee, to attend the school, a penny a week he paid. I And was it compulsory then? S No. I So, I mean, was he a regular attender. S Yes. I Would that be due to his parents' insistence do you think? ) CUMBEQNAULD HI<ffi6QICAL &oc�r 5 / P 5 S2 Well I don't know whether it would be his parents or whether he would be just keen. I think he might be the motivating spirit, because not all the family went. I think it would be he that would initi�te that. I And did he finish at eleven? S I think he finished school at eleven. I I know my mother finished school at twelve. s He was a well educated man. S2 He read a lot S He was self taught. S2 He served his apprenticeship with the Fairfield Shipbuilding Company in Glasgow, in Govan. He stayed in digs at Finnieston across the river. And then every weekend he came home, and he walked home, his home was in Eastfield. And he would walk home on Saturday and back again on Sunday. I remember him saying sometimes he would go to dances, he and other apprentices, and the dances would go on so long, it wasn't worth while going to bed, so they just went straight to their work. And he lived to ninety six. s He was a�g-1"-eat cha-r-acter. I He would be well known. And how many children did he have? S2 He had eight children, four boys, four girls. I And your mother was ••• S2 She was the eldest girl. We were associated with the Cattle Show, Secretary of the Agricultural Society. s We were Secretary and Treasurer for years. I And where were they held? S Down beyond Wigtown Place. There was a field on the left there. S2 Sometimes they were held up here. S Sometimes they were up here at Bell's Park(?). was at the Bank. I Yes, I know where you mean. That S2 And my grandfather erected the Show, you know, the tents. For years and years he did that. I And your grandmother, where did she come from? S2 She came from Condorrat. I And what happened to all the other family, you know, the four boys and four girls? S2 They're all dead now. I Did they stay in the area? S2 No,no. They moved out. Some of them stayed for a while. One of my uncles was in the business with my grandfather. He was there till•••till my grandfather died and then he moved to Rutherglen, he and his wife. But they lived in the Village until my grandfather died in 1958, they moved in 1959. One of my aunts married and stayed for a while in Castlecary House. Married John Weir of Castlecary who was involved with the brickwork at Castlecary Glenboig(?). And he lived in Castlecary House until he retired, and then they lived in that bungalow, three up from here. It used to be the top but then other two were built further up. And then they moved away to Toward on the coast near Dunoon(?). And another aunt married and moved to Glasgow, and an uncle married and moved to Glasgow. The oldest of the family, my uncle Bob, he lived all his life in 6 · = c;_, CUMBEQNAULD IiI&OQICAL &JCIET Cumbernauld until he died. He didn't marry. And then the other aunt that was the teacher, was unmarried and she lived in Cumbernauld till she died, 1952(?) I think it was she died. I Now in England you couldn't be a teacher if you were married, did that apply in Scotland? S2 Well, I don't think so, it may have done at one time, but not recently, because there were quite a number of married teachers. S Mind you, back in the Thirties, when a lady got ••• as soon as she married she stopped work. There wasn't a law against working, but it was the done thing. I mean there was a Miss White, Margaret White, here, and whenever she got married she stopped work. S2 There was in the Civil Service. People had to stop as soon as they got married. That was the case until 1947 I think. I s John's mother was a teacher and she had to leave as soon as she got married. I never had a Mrs. as a teacher, it was always Miss. �But r_eally�the�t_e_achers when I was at school were first class. You got such a great grounding in the primary school in arithmetic, reading and writing, that you never forgot it. It stood by you all your life. S2 You could safely say that people left school at that time at the age of fourteen and they had a far better grounding in grammar and syntax than people who come out nowadays with a higher certificate and A levels. I That's wonderful when you think what a small place Cubernauld was, I mean it's not very big now, but then it must have been smaller. And that's quite remarkable in a very rural area like that. S2 Do you remember when the headmaster lived in the schoolhouse? s Yes, I do. I Where was the schoolhouse? S It was attached to the school. Paddy Craig they called him, the one that I remember - it was Meikle, I think, before that. I didn't know him well. Mr.Craig, he got away with murder, you know. He would sometimes take the class and tell you all sorts - how far it was to the sun, and about meteors falling down to earth. He didn't do much, but it was very interesting. If you just so happened to drift away and look out the window he was on to you straight away - he got away with murder you know. I And what numbers were in the class, how many were you? S Oh, big classes, about thirty six, I think Up until the eleven plus there were big classes, thirty six or forty, but after that a lot of them left school, they didn't go on to what they called the higher grade in these days - the First, Second, and Third Year. In the Third Year there could be ten in the class. There was always private tuition. I And to go back to your grandfather, did no-one in the family continue that business? S No. S2 Lamont bought the business, then he moved it. He started off in the old workshop down here in the Village and r '--' CUMBEQNAULD HI<ffiOQICAL roc;tr 5 / r i then he moved to get more room in Greenfaulds. It was bought after my grandfather died by Lamont. I And nobody else was interested in the business? S2 By that time you see they were all•••my uncle who had been in the business was retiral age, and my other uncle was an accountant in Glasgow, so he wasn't interested, and the oldest brother in the family, he had died by then. So Ithe.r:e dwas nobodv tta1continue bthe business. th b 1. An you wer� ei 1ng us a out tnem ao1ng e ow 1ng green. When anything like that went on, was it a general celebration in the Village? Everybody went to see it.? S2 I think so. Yes. They had collected for years to get enough money to returf the bowling green. They had sales of work and raffles, and a weekly collection round the Village, for I remember my mother said she had a certain area that she went to every week to collect subscriptions. And when they had enough money they got the thing returfed. And then they had a special kind of event after the returfing, that was an opening event, and that was when the photograph was taken. I And�wa�s��hat�a�very�pop�1�a�� bow1�i�ng green�?--- s It was one of the main attractions that they had in the Village. I mean they worked constantly to get funds and Captain Barnes(Burns?) was always approached and he was generous with his giving. S2 And after the Cattle Show they had a dance. s I was Just going to say that, I've forgotten what it was called. What was it called? S2 I've forgotten too. It had a special name. s Everybody attended this thing. Here was the bowling green, you see, just as you went down into it there was another grassy part, quite big, two or three times the size of this room, which wasn't the bowling green, you know, just a grassy patch and they danced on that, on the grass. S2 They wouldn't be allowed to dance on the bowling green. s I t was always after the Cattle Show, and the Silver Band, Cumbernauld Band, played to this dancing, and needless to say all the farmers and people who had been to the Cattle Show had a good •••••(dance?), when they started it was grass when they finished it was nothing. (laughter) There were tickets for it and all the rest of it. You had to get a ticket. I And who did the catering for these things? S There wasn't any catering for the dance thing, but as far as the Cattle Show was concerned it was always a caterer from Glasgow. They came out with a big tent, Strachan Kerr was the favourite name. You could go for your tea, you could go for your breakfast, in fact, if you were there early enough, and then your lunch and tea, it went on all day long. The waitresses came out with the ••• (?) • I It was all well organised. And what about the farmers that came, whereabouts would they have come from, in the vicinity or•••? S All over where the New Town is with farms. The same Kildrum was a farm, Carbrain was a farm, the Old I nns was a farm. Everything was farms all around. It was quite a good show. , ) CUMBEQNAULD HI&0QICAL 00CIET�� 5 ) r � I I mean there are still quite a lot of farms in the area even yet. So there must have been ••• S2 Oh yes, Westerwood was a farm, and Mainhead up the road, where Dobbie's is. S Balloch. S2 And then there was Mid Forest, East Forest and West Forest. And then there was Bandominie. I Where was that Bessie? S2 That was about near Castlecary. S Kind of between Castlecary and the Arns. I And did they come from even further out, toward Slammanan and these areas? s There was an area you couldn't come beyond it, but they kept changing the area. It was up to the Show Committee. Slarnmanan - yes. Watt from Todd's Buff (spelling?) Slammanan came with all his Clydesdale horses. I And how did they bring the animals? S Walked. I Walked? With all the animals as well? S Yes. My grandfather had a brother on a farm, A-irdriehea-d and t-hen --h e-went to-Netherwood. And at one time he brought his cattle to the joiner's shop the night before. They walked them down, they were all Ayrshire cattle and the chief one was the cow in milk, so it was beneficial not to walk the cows straight to the Show, wait till they had milked them. So they stayed overnight. S2 And someone had to keep going up and down all night to make sure these animals didn't lie down, because they were all washed and brushed dressed for the Show. So it was more or less a sleepless night for them before the Show. I It must have been quite a sight though. Are there any records of that at all? Someone's probably got photographs of that somewhere if we could ferret them out. It must have been well received. Would people come from round about. It must have been a big day out, I presume. s It was one of the big days out of the year. S2 When I remember it it was a Saturday, but it used to be a Thursday, and I think it was a school holiday. I I can well imagine that. I2 Well the first few years we were in Cumbernauld they had the Cattle Show up the hill there, is that New Head Road, didn't they? I Yes, I remember going to those but they've all gone. I2 Near where the town shopping centre was. I The temporary shopping centre. S I'll tell you another great day there was. Most of the farms were rented from Cumbernauld estate and they had a rent day every year. And they'd hold it in the Masonic Arms and the factor sat upstairs and all the farmers came to pay their rent. And when I was working in the bank across the road, we had to stay open until the factor had it all totted up and came over with the money and cheques. 12 What would the average rent be? S Now you've got me. Not a lot, seventy-five to a hundred pounds. I A year. And would they ever be able to buy those farms or would they always be rented? S Well they did buy. When the Burns moved down to Somerset, they got the opportunity of buying. 9 CUMBEQNAULD ttI&rOQICAL 12 They got quite a good deal as sitting tenants. s But they would arrive at the Masonic Arms and of course they would have a list like, and so they wanted improvements made. And of course they had to get their dram. Absolutely a day apart. S2 Did the collector get charged for this, or did Dougal let them have the refreshment(?) free for the custom they brought? s I'm not sure about that Betty. Some day that was. I Wev•e never heard about that before. s And when Captain Burns died, his body was taken in a farm cart, right up the Main Street, all the blinds were taken down. I He died in Cumbernauld House, did he? S Yes. I So it was the rest of the family that moved away, then? s Yes, it was after the War. S2 After the Estate was sold to the ••••••(unclear) I That must have been a very sad day for the people of Cumbernauld. S2 They�were---nice ---PeopLe------ S Miss Burns was a fantastic person. She was a very tall lady. She never got married. She rode her horse round the farms. She used to take a five-barred gate. S2 It wasn't unusual to find her spreading muck around the s farm. She did a lot of good work. with the YWCA. Just before called "Women's League of Health lady's name that was involved in S2 Penelope Stack. I think she was working the War there was a thing and Beauty". The other it••• S And Jean Lawrence started this up in that hall in the City Ends (unclear) S2 Which is the Orange Hall now. S All the young girls went there, and that's what led from that to the tennis up at the big house I So she was a big influence really? S2 Yes. She was the only girl in the family, and I think she helped to take her mother's place. Her mother died of cancer, at a fairly young age. Was she not the eldest of the family? s Was Jock not the oldest? S2 He might have been. But she place in looking after things I wonder why it is today that like that Miss Burns would be I were they? kind of took her mother's in the Village. people think that someone patronising? They weren't, s No. And Jock, I can remember his twenty-first birthday. He was the heir. Major Burns he was after the War. He married a very nice lady from England. 82 He was a friend of Lord Whitelaw's. And they shared a governess for their children. s Major Whitelaw as we knew him, used to come to the cattle shows. And he stood here to try and become a member of parliament. He was an honorary president of the society here, he was a fine man. I Has it always been that the candidates that were returned from here were left-wing? s Well, yes, as far as I know. 10 �-Tu�5/ r. , ID CUMBEQNAULD HI&ORICAL 80CIETY I2 When it was East Dunbartonshire it was recognised as a "navy blue" seat. And the first one I remember was Adam McKinlay, who was an engineer, and then Cyril Bence(?). S Yes, I remember Cyril Bence. I2 I think at one time it was Liberal. When the Liberals were strong. I think I told you, Thelma, that my grandfather was a strong Liberal. You know how they used to get the results phoned through, but David Bence(?) he was always of the opinion that Lloyd George ruined the Liberal Party. And Mr.Hogg, who lived downstairs from my grandparents, he was also a strong Liberal. He used to say, "Lloyd George, a clatty wee Welshman". I Could I just go back to the day the factor was there, collecting the rents? Would he be an employee of Mr.Burns? Or would he be an independent man? S No, he was factor for Cumbernauld Estate. I remember a fantastic man called A.Elrick(?)Gray, lived in Dullatur, a company house, if you like to say that. A most able man who served Captain Bond faithfully for years, and not only that, he advised every farmer on the Estate. If ever they had trouore witl1 any-t;nt~ng a-t�a11� , � if i t�was a � farming or� agricultural thing - "Get Mr.Gray". He wasn't paid for it at all, it was just out of the goodness of his heart. S2 You know, when you go round to Dullatur, you go down the Glen, and come to a turn in the road, a sort of right hand bend which, Victoria Terrace is up on your left and the bend goes round parallel to that? Along to the left, that's where Gray's house was. I think the house will still be there, although he's been dead for a long time and his family have moved away. I Is that near the golf course? S2 Further down. s You go right down the Glen, you go under the railway, and you would turn right there's a little road••• on the left there is his house. S2 If you go left you go along to the farm at Easter Dullatur, down to the canal. I don't know who's in that house now, or if it's still there even. I There are quite a lot of big houses along there. s It's been sold. I remember it was sold for quite a lot of money. S2 He used to get driven around by Carr out of the garage, his taxi, and Finlay and his taxi, when he was going around farms and fairs, he didn't drive and he didn't have a car. If he wanted to get anywhere he got a hire from either Carr at the garage - where the Old Inns is now, or Finlay who was up the Barn Hill, where Dickson is now. s Every Saturday morning he went up to Cumbernauld House and reported to Captain Burns, what was what - he was a great man. I so the farmers were really well treated, if they were attached to Mr.Burns? s It was just as if they owned their farms, he didn't interfere in the slightest. He got their rent, but they wanted to get this thing and the next thing done, He would hardly ••• the rents were low. I The farms were very scattered, I know, but what about the children of these farms, did they come to school in Cumbernauld. CUMBEQNAULD S They walked from, say up at the Arns, or Bandominie, they walked to school. S2 Some of them might go to Castlecary I suppose. S If they were in Stirlingshire. If they were under the Arches, they went to Stirlingshire, they went there. But away up the Fannyside walked, and if it was very wet, you got what they called "a double", a double attendance. You went home at lunch-time, to dry out as it were. The poor souls, they walked without coats or anything, from Palaceriggs to Cumbernauld School and they had to stay all day you see. If they were terribly wet, got soaked coming down, the teacher would say, "It looks as though it will keep raining, we'll get a double today." And in would come Mr.Craig, the headmaster, "Right, mark a double attendance." Although you were only there in the morning. But there again that headmaster - the curling pond, you may not know about it. I2 Was that at the bottom of the Wilderness Brae? S Aye, right at the bottom of the Wilderness Brae, there was this area, and they let water into it, the Council, -and of course -----when-win-�e---r�e, tliey were harder winters � then, it would freeze over, and you got skating, and they curled on it too, and there was a little hut there where the stones were kept, and brushes. And Mr.Longwell lived in this house here, he was the clerk to the District Council, he would come down at night with a book, and you paid your subscription to skate. Of course the minute he came "There's Longwell", and you were all up into the woods, skates and everything on. It was only a shilling, you would have thought it was a fortune. "Is he away now?" "Yes." So everybody came back on there. But Mr.Craig, the headmaster, it was lovely and frosty, you got this double again. "Go down to the curling pond and slide or skate." So everybody went down and he would come down. Many a time you got a half day to go to the curling pond and skate. I The atmosphere has changed since then. S And there was no money for a sports day. It was only till I was fourteen that they had a sports day in Cumbernauld School. And they scraped up a few bob. It was down in the public park. But a great day of the year was the Co-op Gala Day. Now that was every year for the Cumbernauld Co-operative Society. They had races, five-a-side football. and it was all done in conjunction with the school. You were in five-a-side teams and all the preliminaries were gone through until the Final was kept for the Gals Day. And there was a parade round the Village and you sat down on the grass and you got a bag of buns and you had to bring •••• the notices up in the shops was "Co-op Gala Day" •••saturday such and such, and at the bottom - "Weans, bring your tinnies". And you got milk and a bag of buns from the Co-op. S2 Usually you had a tape on the handle •• s A tape went round your neck. And you had races with money prizes, supplied by the Co-op. It was a great day out. And then the five-a-side at night. There was a big crowd watched it all. I2 And were you in banking all your working life? s Yes, I was. I2 And were you in banking all your working life? S Yes I was. I2 You must have seen some fantastic changes. S Yes. I've been retired now for fifteen years. since then there's been a lot - there's been more changes. I You won't be sorry that you've retired, I wouldn't think either. S NO. But when I started in Cumbernauld, you stood at a great, high desk, you didn't sit. I2 And pen and ink. S Pen and ink. Copying ink if you wanted to copy a thing. You opened up this book of thin thin pages backed by ••••what would you say the thing was•••oi1skin, and you got a brush with water and you wet the pages, and if you wet them too much, and put the thing in it•••, then you put them into this press, and if you wet them too much it came all blurred. It was just so•• you had to get it right. I2 I remember seeing those big presses in the bank, s� And you stuck th7.stning in tne He-a-a o-ffi-ce letter. You pressed your foot on this thing left it for a minute or two, and then back again•• I And how many were there working in the bank at that time? S In the bank at that time there was tne manager, he was called the agent, the accountant and an apprentice. The manager didn't do anything at all. He sat in his office and read the Glasgow Herald, saw customers. S2 Socialised. Must have been great to be manager in those days. I2 And did you have any machines in those days? S Not even a typewriter. No adding machines, nothing. We added up in our heads, and a lot of copying work, writing, we were writing for evermore, which they don't even keep records of now. Every cheque that was paid in••••One of the biggest customers - the biggest customer, was John G Stein and Company, brick manufacturers. He would pay in a big bundle of cheques - now every one of these cheques we wrote in, the drawer of the cheque, how much it was, the bank it was on, did it come from Colemore Road, I could tell you dozens of names on these cheques - Incandescent Heat Company - a lot from Birmingham, it was a big, big industrial city. I2 Which of the English banks was your bank? S I was with the Royal Bank. I2 Were they tied in with Lloyds? S We weren't tied in with anybody at that time. But they had been quite innovative taking over Williams Deacons, in the nineteen-twenties, and Promenans (?) of Charing Cross in London, and a branch of the Bank of England, the Western Branch at Burlington Arcade, in the West End of London. I Colemore Road is quite an impressive street in Birmingham. Fancy you remembering that. s I used to know them all, writing them in. I Did you enjoy that work? s Yes, I enjoyed it. The advantage of being here with only two people, you saw everything. Particularly with John G.Stein, they had travellers all over the continent of 13 \ r,3 lq,� 5 /o CUMBERNAULD HI&ORICAL 00CIETY Europe,selling their bricks, firebricks. You were sending their salaries out. You learned about the foreign exchange how to transfer from one currency to another. Needless to say, you did it by long division, no machines at all. You took the Glasgow Herald and you got the rate, or if it was a big amount you phoned up your Glasgow Office overseas, and then you divided dollars, whatever it was - two point something - into pounds to get the••• I A big responsibility that. And what area did that bank serve? Where would the next one be in relation to cunbernauld? s Well, if you were going west towards Glasgow, it would be Stepps, was the first bank. Kilsyth was another bank. Falkirk, Stirling had banks. Airdrie had a bank, but it was quite a big area. I It would be, by the sound of it. And I suppose all the farmers used that bank. S Yes. S2 John G.Stein's quite an interesting man. I remember my mother talking about how he came over from Germany and had-d-igs with Henderson, up-the-R-oadsl-de tnere, in:--Parkview, � which is pulled down now, it's more or less where those new houses are, almost across the road from the complex. He married one of the Henderson daughters, and he experimented with this new method of making bricks, till he perfected what he wanted to do, and he went around different banks, trying to get a loan to set him up in business. Several banks turned him down, but the Royal Bank advanced him the money and that set him on his way, and he laid down a rule from then on to his family, and who succeeded him, that they had to deal always with the Royal Bank in Cumbernauld Village, because they had given him the money. S That's right. He actually set the house on fire making the bricks. I Would the brickworks at Glenboig be handled by your bank? S Not then, no. do you call that amalgamated with S2 And then the The brickworks at Glenboig were - what firm that took over Stein eventually, or him - General Refractories. one at Langloans (?), was that Stein's initially? s The one at Langloans (?) was the most modern brickworks in Europe. It had what you call a tunnel kiln, which is common now, but wasn't in these days. I And the Stein family, did they have••• ? s S2 s S2 The Stein family - there was Colonel Alan Stein, he was the senior, there was Norman••• And there was a Colin. Aye. They came on later on. There was girls, I think. I only heard my mother talk about them, because she travelled into school in Glasgow. They went up to Cumbernauld Station and got the train. The Stein boys were already on from Castlecary or wherever - Allandale, and they would be looking out for the girls that were coming on at Cumbernauld, and she said they were the most awful wild boys you could meet, but the old father, old J.G. would often travel on the same train going in to business in Glasgow. Of course he was travelling first class, they were just ordinary. I He came over from Germany, you said? S2 He came over from Germany, I think that was after the First War, no, it must have been before that, because if they were going to school together it must have been much before that, it couldn't have been after that. He was a very strict disciplinarian, and if he saw them misbehaving, if he happened to pass the carriage when they were capering then they were in trouble. s That place down where the brickwork was, Allandale, well it was called after his son Allan. Allan Stein was a colonel, that would be in the First World War, so obviously it would be long before that. S2 In fact one of them was killed in the First World War. But it must have been obviously before that, that they were kids at school. I In Allandale, was that built workers' houses? S Built workers' houses. There were some for kind of managers, some for ordinary workers. S2 The ones at Dundas, Dundas Cottages, which is this end, they were for the bosses. I---2 -You�can a-lmost-te-11-by--looking at-them. I So there'd be quite a big work force then? S Oh yes, terrific. !2 They've all been refurbished, haven't they? S At a Conservative dinner about a year ago, I was sitting next to John Stein, he lives in Stirling, and he's a member of that family. He and his wife were sitting next to me and I said, "Are you a member of the Steins that had the brickworks•• ?" And he said, "Yes." I said they had a great business, they made a million bricks a week. I could tell him all about it, he didn't know these things. Of course that would be•.•• that would be his great grandfather. S2 He must have been a clever man, that J.G., doing all that experimenting, and doing it in the house. I That's what you call dedication. But I've often thought when we've come through Allandale, you can almost see the difference in the houses. They're not terribly big but they seem to be well built. And would they pay rent for those, or would that be part of the job? S I'm not sure whether they paid rent or not. They had to go out when they left. They were tied. They had a bowling green and all the rest of it, it was a very tight community. But if they stepped out of line, woe betide them. They had to conform to old John G.'s innovative plans and ideas. Norman Stein, another brother staying in Stirling, it's now used as a council bowling green, as you go into Stirling on the left hand side, it was a colossal place they had. I What would the wages be like? S The wages were •••• three pounds a week. Some of them were working in what they called the "burn squad". Where the bricks were burned and put into kilns. Working with barrows taking them out, very hot. Quite unhealthy really. They'd get more, they'd get a lot of money. In fact there was a brother of David Boyle did that. I2 I was going to say he brought us a photograph of the burn squad. s I forget the brother's name, Willie Boyle maybe, Davie 15 CUMBEQNAULD Hl&ORICAL worked in the Spur. He was in the bank a lot, getting change. Mr.Lindsay, the accountant, and I would play a••• would say, "There's Davie Boyle coming in", seeing him from the window, it was up the Main Street, the bank, at that time. Mr.Lindsay would have out bags of silver, change he was after, he had it practically right. "How did you know what I wanted?" It was just a guess. You got to know them all. It was such a personal thing, nowadays it's so impersonal. Even when I moved away from here, I was in Falkirk, Stirling, Glasgow