Meet_Your_Delegate_Ep15_ft_Gove_(getmp3.pro) Mon, 6/20 12:21PM 35:17 SUMMARY KEYWORDS governance, maker, delegate, question, communities, defi, dao, proposals, vote, organization, decision, integrations, index, meta, voting, structure, support, ecosystem, matthew, tokens 00:02 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the 15th edition of the meet your delegate calls at Maker DAO. I'm Patrick. I'm one of the GovAlpha, contributors Maker DAO. And I'm delighted to welcome the governance House team who have come to present their platform to assist them today, welcoming Joe punker, and Matthew, all of whom are members of the delegate team. And we're going to give them the usual format, where they'll have five to 10 minutes to present their platform. And then we'll move on into a question and answer session, feel free to leave questions in the chat, and I'll read them out. Or if you've got any points you want to raise, feel free to raise your hand or just interject if there's a lull in the conversation. And just a reminder 00:42 that this is being recorded and will go on YouTube. So bear that in mind, and I will now hand over to Blanca who's going to present for us. 00:53 Sounds perfect. Thank you both thank. So let me share my screen 01:06 Can you can you see it? Okay. 01:08 Looks good. Perfect. So thank you for having us here. Your governance house. So I will start with a little history, how we got graded. And then we will go into what's our mission and how we want to operate within Maker. So governance house has been created this year. So it's fairly new organization. However, the members of the governance house has been in web three, for some time, it all started, I would say, you know, within meta governance, stuff in index coop, where we've been discussing how we can basically improve meta governance not just for index scope itself, but like overall for the ecosystem, because we have seen a lot like voter apathy, there has been not, you know, much participation are the four rooms, proposals can be executed and so on. And there was many things happening. And one of the things was like, you know, to create kind of independent organization, where our contributors from various styles, which are interested in governance, and also have knowledge of other aspects of DeFi can join and help, basically, the ecosystem to grow. And that's how basically governance house started. And as I mentioned, like, the organization itself, its cooperation hub. So the members of the governance house participating also in other organizations, doubts protocols, you can see, like, I would say, the major here, there's probably a few more, and we are expanding on that we really want to, you know, cover all aspects of DeFi slash web three, to have the knowledge to be able to actually like, make informed decisions on particular proposals and also to be able to maybe create our own proposals suggest some optimizations, and so on. So we really believe in like knowledge sharing and cooperation rather than competition here. Like we want to know what is going on in the system, what works, what doesn't, so we can really enable innovation. 03:39 This is our core values. So basic, on this core values, we will be basing our areas I already mentioned, one, which is openness, we really want to be collaborative, we don't want to, you know, hide some information, for sake of having some advantages are so we really want to be transparent share knowledge, between the entities and within the ecosystem. So we can grow as an industry. 04:10 We also believe that making quick decisions, it's not always the best idea, especially if there is a you know, a lot of funds involved. And we'd rather you know, check. 04:24 Like, what makes sense, what's safe, and how we can proceed. The best way for the community, for the holder and so on. 04:34 Others, like trust, integrity, you know, it's really connected to the transparency itself, like informing community about our decisions, why we are doing something and also collaboration within our governance house, where we also accepting only contributors where we can trust each other so that there will be no malicious actor basically. So that's it. 05:00 also like within our 05:03 organization itself, 05:05 you know, being 05:08 doing this similar decision, like, not be changing our minds every single time, but really be that one who is pushing like the progress in the industry, collaboration or dimension. So would not repeat myself and intrapreneurial spirit that's connected to the, you know, making our own proposals. So not just be having opinions on something what is happening, but also if we see gaps, or we see like that. And specifically here for Maker, there can be something how we can improve how we can expand, maybe the market for Dai, or something like that, or improve organization structure, whatever it can be, we want to also put the proposals forward. So we want to also like contribute in the way that like, we can help out we can provide the resources, we can provide the plan, how we can improve, or how Maker can improve. 06:09 And that's basically what is on this slide is really like 06:18 Sorry, 06:20 was there any question or just? 06:23 No, I think somewhat accidentally or muted, I will just carry on, 06:27 it's fine. Please, I could have, you know, pause, let's go with. 06:33 So, you know, this is how we want to help Maker ecosystem, like, we want to make sure that like the Dai all the products within Maker is expanding, we are supporting the market. And in this in the same time, we are also defending the market itself. So you know, VC, like both sides, kind of have this equation, we need to support the expansion. But we also need to protect Maker from any governance at x exploit and so on. So that's, that's how we want to really support the Maker ecosystem. And, you know, and that's probably it from the presentation perspective. So I hope it was the five to 10 minutes, as promised. And now we can get into the questions. But before that Matthew or God want to add something. 07:30 Just big fans of Dai and big fans of DeFi. And all of us, you're very passionate about the space, I want to make sure we can help out in any way we can to keep DeFi running, especially with this crazy market going on right now. And this cascading liquidations across the centralized actors, it's never been more important for crypto to have DeFi right now and have it be really strong and have the whole community come together. So really happy to be here with you guys. 07:56 Very well covered penca. Enjoy. So I just like to echo that. Really looking forward to working with Mike, I think we've done a bit of work already Maker like round some of the integrations with RB now the arc market. So really looking forward to getting d3 plugged in there in the future when the time's right. And just really looking forward to working with the community and doing everything we can to help and drive some of those connections and integrations across DeFi. So moved forward to 08:29 thank you for the presentation, I think you were well within the time limit. So that's really good. I'm just going to open the floor straight up to questions I can see. 08:37 There's a couple of questions already coming through in the chat. kianga. And David, you want to hop on the mic or you want me to read them out? 08:44 I'll happen like real quick. I'm curious lately about just delegates and whether they like no MKR holders coming in as the presence of slugs. So I'm curious besides like ruin and maybe like publicly known larger calendars. Does anyone in your group know like an MKR holder upfront that is going to delegate to you or you're anticipating a delegation from or anything like that? 09:11 09:11 So I can answer first and if Joe and or Betty want to add something. So from like, what we know and I already kind of touched upon it like index scoop, it's large, large MKR holder, if they delegate to us, we don't know yet there is some technical, you know, over which needs to be done to enable the delegation itself, then they might consider delegating to us but it will be for the community to vote if you know the delegate house should be org sorry, governance house should be the one using their tokens. But just for transparency, I want to mention it 09:59 yesterday 10:00 was a question in the chat from kianga, who's eager invest one of our other delegates. And she's asking if you could let us know your backgrounds in the space and what you will be spending time on other than governance house or its governance house kind of a full time role for all of you across the various protocols. 10:21 So guys, anyone else wants to start? So I'm not sure. 10:26 Yeah, I spend a lot of time consulting in the space right now. Thanks consulting. It's tokenomics consultant. I'm also a DeFi power user. I've been in the space since 2016. I also work with tokenomics, DAO billion tokenomics models from scratch. And some governance work with voltage finance, as well as bank was. 10:45 A follow on there. So Matthew Graham, joined in its current basically, in 2020. 10:52 Lead the finance team, they've built that out to a wealth from scratch to 14. I also contribute at llama, which does more treasury management kind of flavor across a 11:06 number of different partners here. And more recently, with the meta governance become more actively involved in the RV ecosystem. So we have governance houses proposal there on that for also looking to set itself up as delegate in that system. And we've been contributing in the for also looking to set itself up as delegate in that system. And we've been contributing in the RV ecosystem for for quite a while basically through index coop, but now, more recently, under the governance house kind of banner. So, yeah, use a lot of DeFi. So it's been great. So 11:39 always continue learning. I love that about DeFi. And everything is like new opportunities for collaboration. And I think being plumbed into quite a few different communities really helps foster that collaboration across these different communities and find those opportunities to help growth. 11:58 If I can ever go last, so 12:01 I'm also within few communities, I would say my I have three areas where I spend most of my time. One is governance house. 12:12 Second at Bankwest consulting, which is kind of connected because I'm specializing on governance and tokenomics, on kind of both sides. And then I'm also part of gitcoin. So there I'm helping with 12:27 operations and governance. So lately, I was redesigning their forum to kind of support the discussion. What is going there? Because I think gitcoin It's a really good example that there is really a lot of discussion on the forum. It's just like the discussion outgrow the structure of the forum. So we had to improve on that. And 12:53 index group has been mentioned. So I'm involved still there, but not that much as I used to be. 13:06 Asked Questions. That's great. Thanks. There was a question in the chat, Tim, I don't know if you want to ask it yourself. Yeah, I can hop on the mic. You guys. It's it's Tim from deep black loops or FTL. Delegate. I just wanted to sort of take the time now to unpack meta governance as a service. There's a lot of people who mentioned meta governance, it's a nice buzzword. But I think the actual deliverables of what it is are kind of unclear. So maybe you guys can sort of unpack who is the customer? Do you charge? What's the impact of provides? I give a little bit of a track record? You've already been doing that. But I'd love to hear a little more. 13:39 Like to answer that one. Yeah, sure thing maps about jumping in there. Alright, so meta governance as a service is it's a new term that we've we've coined. So I think being a delegate, and active in communities like voting and governance is, is not so much new, I think there's a number of players in the space to do it. So we also want to help solve, like the vote apathy problem being active in communities, 14:07 bringing opportunities to those communities. So where we differ, which is where maybe government service really kind of comes into the fold, is we want to be able to bring an idea to the community, and also be very active and drive some of the opportunities and those integrations. So we know, most core dev teams are very focused on like higher priority tasks. So some of these more third party business integrations, DeFi integrations that sometimes drift a little bit further down the list. So where governance house can really come into its identify as opportunities, bring them to the community. They also provide some of the not just networking in the boats, but the resources in order to actually get some of these proposals implemented. So in terms of actually implementing these proposals, 15:00 The way we typically fund them either through grants, or just basically through payment. And that's largely basically set up to cover the cost of the resources to actually get drive the integrations all the way through the actual implementation. So if you can some examples of it, if we'd been looking at supporting some of the listings on the RV markets, 15:24 some applications, we've gone through the other grants where it's people there, some communities are like, offering to pick up, like, pay for some of the resources that I see cover, supporting that asset listing there. So it's really 15:39 that's basically the crux of it is doing all this incurs a cost, and we basically are looking to basically cover those ends. 15:55 Yeah, hi, I just I have a follow up on that. Thanks, Tim, for the question. Yeah, hi, I just I have a follow up on that. Thanks, Tim, for the question. 16:01 Because I, I'm still not sure I fully 16:06 grasp the concept. I mean, I, I've been thinking about it, and others in the space have used the term meta governance, and how how I'm thinking about it is, for example, from makers perspective, right, we have tokens, we may hold tokens and other protocols. And then the meta governance, like we have our own governance, which we're all here doing all the time. 16:31 But then as a DAO, us participating in the governance of another protocol, because we hold the assets, which is a challenge, we don't really have a mechanism in place right now to monitor 16:47 and form a view and decide as either Maker holders or as delegates, perhaps how we would vote tokens on other platforms. 16:59 So I've thought about as as the meta governance, right, like kind of the governance that pertains the governance within Maker DAO that pertains to governance decisions happening with either our strategic partners, or governance assets that we may hold in our treasury. 17:21 So it how is how you're viewing meta governance as a service, either similar to what I've described or different. 17:31 I think it encompasses everything you've just said. It probably goes a little bit further. Okay. So for instance, 17:39 I think somebody touched on already, it's like, in this coop has dpi, there's a whole heap of governance tokens inside the API. So index coop is very active in voting in different communities. So they vote with their index token on a snapshot. And then at that point gets implemented on their respective community. 18:00 So in this instance, if Maker was like, index view, and has like lots of asset holdings, where it could use to vote in these communities, 18:10 what you have is like a governance process, you probably have to figure out what that looks like with the next group, it is using snapshot, and then it would be Maker holders voting would be the comparison there. And then, because there's so much happening in this space, how do you keep on top of just what's happening in Maker, but all these other communities you're going to vote on? So then it becomes a question of, how can you take high context and knowledge around that vote, and then basically share it with the broader community? So they can either form their own opinion and then vote accordingly? 18:44 Or do you then elect to say delegated out to a group, which has the context which will provide the updates, or even just facilitate that as a process? Because there's there's one, there's the process, the actual vote goes through? There's enabling people to actually vote with the information. 19:06 Because otherwise people default does end up being the not voting or vote yes. And then there's actual execution and implementation on. So index code governance house has presented a proposal out of the index council to actually run the snapshot, provide a recommendation in discord to the contributors, and then actually implement that. 19:30 So that falls under the banner of metta governance as a service because it's the Dow is the amount of governance in government assets performing services. 19:42 Is that Is that how you see your role here at Maker 19:50 19:50 in your adult in your role as a recognized delegate with our current structure, would your focus then be on 19:58 supporting our 20:00 Meta governance? Which we don't really have a structure for yet? Or are you more going to be focused on just our status quo? 20:11 Internal, you know, voting that we currently have ongoing? Or is it a combination? That is a combination. And you could probably add an extra flavor to that, which is, if throughout our network, we find opportunity to integrate Dai, or even Maker token, we will bring that into the Maker community and present that. 20:33 So there's several different flavors to which 20:37 Oh, obviously, because it spans everything you've touched on. 20:46 I'm gonna throw it to David. Now, he asked a question in the chat. 20:53 Oh, yeah, I could repeat a little bit to it. So I'm curious, who is the most logical person on the team for the grits Maker Maker? Exactly? Like, how knowledgeable are they? How long have you been following? And all of that? And additionally, is there anybody any, like, sort of specialization that you would say your team has, that can contribute to better decision making overall Maker now? 21:23 I can take that question. Probably. 21:27 So I think, I don't want I don't, I'm not sure if I can point to one person who is the most knowledgeable. So, you know, Joe has been doing research and like using Maker for some time, been in this space, and make him like, you know, with interest in Maker for long, Matthew, as well, like, you know, in DeFi involved in index scoop of 21:57 within Maker as well, maybe not like, particularly in like Maker governance. And so, I have been interested in Maker more on the, like, let's say, strategic governance structure in the way like how to how you actually operate, and you know, how you are expanding to like, worry about as real world assets, and so on. So, the are trying to have, like, for every particular aspect of our Maker, someone who will understand that, so we can, you know, 22:34 vote like make informed decision on it. If we don't have that expert, if there will be some specific topic we don't know about, you will probably abstain from voting. So just to maybe summarize it, like us three should, like combine have the knowledge to vote or on like, majority of the proposals, each of us has different expertise. 23:03 Thanks, just gonna throw it straight over to Maker man now, thanks for your patience. 23:09 Thanks, Patrick. 23:11 Boy, I'm trying to figure out where to go with this, because I'm thinking about this governance as a professional organization, right. And, you know, if I thought about these professional organizations being spread across, I don't know, let's just say the entire governance space, right? You have serious conflicts of interest going on. And then you have potential lack of specialization, like I for one, I could be and I own stuff, and a lot of different things. And I potentially can participate in governance, I focused on Maker. One, because it's pretty complex, too. It's a significant logo, right, or Lego and the system. And so my concerns with the group, I see these groups popping up as ideas that there's information in Maker that literally can't, you know, it's private. And so there's going to be certain aspects of Maker information and governance, that you're, there's going to be issues with participating in, right, and then being knowledgeable about and so my question to you guys is like, you know, how do you see these professional organizations evolving, and how they're going to deal with issues of conflicts of interests and information flows and being, you know, the idea that I'm gonna have to deal with four different people, to bring them up to speed on some issue, if you're communicating, you know, delegates communicate somewhat, but not a lot. You know, how am I going to do that when I have to deal with 458 10 people in an organization versus having a single point person who may be knowledgeable and is the person that can delineate it or pass out information to the organization and how's that going to work? You know, I guess I'm guessing I'm gonna say is I'm gonna have a hard time seeing like, a US Representative, right, like in the legislature being a group and then that group 25:00 Being able to sit in European legislature or Chinese legislature or whatever, and then having to deal with all the conflicts of interest and manage all these different things in ways that make sense. And so I'm kind of curious how you deal with that. 25:17 Yeah, no, great question. And 25:20 I think there was multiple question in in that. So I will start with the first one with the point person. So yes. 25:29 Personally, I don't believe that like, group can be accountable. So that's why I took kind of Dysport like of being like the point person and accountable for everything. And also like, if someone needs to communicate to governance house for Maker, things, it will be through me, and I will make sure that whoever needs to be involved will be involved. So there will be no like, you know, multiple people, 25:56 which needs to be informed from you or something like that, it should be me, the one who will be communicating that, and also who is responsible. 26:07 So that's the first 26:08 conflict of interest and like confidentiality. 26:13 So definitely transparency, it's like number one. So we, wherever we can, we don't want to kind of, you know, we want to share knowledge and we want to kind of make sure that we can do that within the group or even beyond like to support the DeFi ecosystem. However, 26:37 I understand that some information may be confidential, and we will respect that. So, whenever Maker says like that, there will be like, there is a confidential information which cannot go beyond maybe myself or like, beyond the internal group, like, you know, who is involved within Maker and governance house means maybe, me, Joe, Matthew, we will, we will respect that. And we will make sure that it doesn't go beyond if that's what Maker will kind of instruct us. But we don't want to hold information from someone or like, you know, not be transparent. That's not something what we want to do. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but I hope so. 27:23 A common area? 27:28 Yeah, you basically answered my question. 27:33 Okay, if you have any other like concerns, like, please let me know, you know, we want to make sure that this cooperation would work. So, so then, if there needs to be adjustments, and we are, you know, newly created organization with like, 27:49 very, I would say ambitious vision, and to grow DeFi ecosystem and like, you know, we want to learn as much as we can like how this can actually operate. So we are rather supportive then like making any blockers on the way. 28:09 Okay, any other questions? Yeah, there's been a few questions raised in the chat. So I'm gonna, I'm going to try and summarize them into kind of one, one question. So the question is regarding how your decision making processes a team, is it one person that will be making decisions? Do you all have an equal say? And similarly to that? What's kind of the structure of the team? Is it is it an organization, is it a DAO? Are you employees of governance house? Are you the owners of governance house? How does that work? And how would that tie into a decision making process? 28:38 Yeah, so currently, and this might evolve, 28:42 currently, there is basically towards Maker I will be the responsible person. So I will be responsible for making the final decisions. And like, you know, I will be basically Joe and Matthew and David and maybe a few others will be like advising on that this might might change eventually that we have formed out at the moment, there is no like DAO which can like overturn the decision or something like that, or that we need to like, you know, do something with indexes doing with meta governance, like voting on our own decision. So that will be like the structure of decision making towards Maker at the moment. 29:25 Okay, and then kind of a logical follow up question then might be I know, Tim, raise this in the chat. So there's occasions at Maker where we need people to vote quickly. So that's how Maker works is how any any governance propose an executive vote, if there's a big security issue, we will be contacting delegates saying we need you to vote within the next few hours sometimes. Would that meet be then would upon karbi? Kind of have to have the have the trust of the rest of the team to make those decisions in an emergency situation? Or would that still need a discussion among the team in those kinds of situations? 29:59 Absolutely. 30:00 Regarding man to go to in this situation up or direct delegate for sure. 30:07 Thank you for trusting me. 30:10 Yeah, I also my question was about your if you're a DAO, or an incorporated entity. 30:20 So are you owners of the entity or just how you're legally structured? 30:28 At the moment that 30:30 unmetric, correct me if there will some progress, but there is no legal entity at the moment. If I'm not mistaken, it's like, basically, that's why I will be the point of contact as a person. If that's changed, we will definitely update Maker DAO on that. 30:47 So we are still kind of as newly created, you know, organization, we are still like thinking, what is the best structure to use? But, you know, that's why I will be the one 30:59 like a person facing the Maker. 31:07 Okay, and then another question. I'm just going back to what we were talking about before from Tim, in the chat. Do you have a multisig that you're using to vote with? Or will the phone call be in charge of the wallet that's in the kind of a time sensitive situation? How does that work? 31:20 Yeah, if I can add a little context, mostly like, obviously, if we're thinking long enough term, this will sort of be a proxy for like, fiduciary duties, right? So if you're running as an organization, there's some level of compliance internally, right, we see that from other teams, because I was just curious if you guys are starting with one trusted actor who's running like a one and multisig? Or if you're actually just doing one, 31:46 just to just because I'm curious, actually. 31:52 Yeah, so I think this is something we need to discuss. Because 31:58 with fast, like decision making, as you just mentioned, like, I will be the one deciding, but we had multi SIG, so it's, like, now I see the paradox in it. So I think that something would be needs to 32:13 discuss internally how we can execute on it. And if there will be basically just like, you know, I can do the decisions from void, which I Oh, so 32:29 let me kind of take that offline, and like, update you on our decision. Because yeah, I see kind of the paradox now happening here. 32:43 Asking, that's been a really fruitful discussion. And we've we've kind of hit the 30 minute mark there. So unless anyone's got any burning questions they want to ask, we'll probably wrap it up. And I've got hand up here from eisbaer. Go ahead. Just one question. What's the timeline we are looking at right now? 33:02 Like, what's the timeline in the future? For the integration of the corporations? 33:09 You mean, with the legal entity? Yeah, like, what's the timeline that we 33:15 can feel comfortable with setup that we will have in the future? can feel comfortable with setup that we will have in the future? 33:21 So the legal entity timeline, as it has not been decided what type of legal entity we will be using, or if it will be DAO. 33:32 And you know, for maybe in multiple jurisdiction, I cannot really like to give you a concrete answer there is there is no, 33:40 there is no decision made. There is no real clear roadmap on that one. Okay. 33:47 Yeah. 33:49 So that's what I'm facing the Maker as a as an individual, basically, 33:56 it's important to note we're also working with several other communities. And we want to take on board their feedback and recommendations or input along the way in determining on the legal structure is 34:10 simply for Matthew. 34:15 That's great. Yeah. So as we've hit our time now, I'm going to wrap this up. So thank you, bronkart, Matthew, and Joel, for coming to spend half an hour with us answering a lot of questions there. I thought that was a really interesting discussion. I certainly enjoyed it. And it seemed to stimulate a lot of conversation, which was really good. 34:32 So what will happen next is we'll post this up on YouTube, and I will be in touch with you over the next couple of days to get you live as a recognized delegate on the on the voting portal, and you'll then be able to share that address and anyone who wishes to you will be able to delegate to you. So yeah, so welcome. Welcome to make it out. And I look forward to working with you going forwards. 34:53 Thank you better. Thank you for having us. Yeah, this was great discussion. Thank you for all the questions 35:00 Actually we just realized that we might need to also already improve some of our processes so it was very valuable for us 35:07 thanks for having us guys appreciate it yeah thanks for everyone's time thanks guys thanks for all the questions really appreciate it